Cadetship vs Modular in current job market
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2024
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
Cadetship vs Modular in current job market
Hi all,
I've been saving for years, finally ready to start (and see through) my flight training. I'm weighing up the best route into the airlines and wanted to get some advice on the current job market for newly qualified fATPL holders. From what I've heard, things are very competitive right now, with some fresh fATPL holders not landing their first job for 18 months or sometimes never.
Given the situation, I'm wondering whether it’s wise to enrol in a cadet scheme like Wizz Air's or Ryanair's Future Flyers, where you're secured a job at the end of training - I'm going to stay clear of EastJet's MPL programme due to the delays.
I have the funds upfront to go down any route— either a cadet scheme or modular with a self-funded type rating or instructor rating. I’d really appreciate some insight into the job market right now and whether there’s a realistic chance of securing a job in General Aviation or as a flight instructor post fATPL. Or, is it just more sensible to lock in a conditional offer through one of these cadet programs, given the current uncertainty?
For some background: I have a degree in Physics and programming experience, but no professional experience in aviation relevant to a job as a pilot.
Thanks in advance for any advice! I've seen rudestuff give some great advice on here regarding best modular routes so perhaps you wouldn't mind weighing in.
I've been saving for years, finally ready to start (and see through) my flight training. I'm weighing up the best route into the airlines and wanted to get some advice on the current job market for newly qualified fATPL holders. From what I've heard, things are very competitive right now, with some fresh fATPL holders not landing their first job for 18 months or sometimes never.
Given the situation, I'm wondering whether it’s wise to enrol in a cadet scheme like Wizz Air's or Ryanair's Future Flyers, where you're secured a job at the end of training - I'm going to stay clear of EastJet's MPL programme due to the delays.
I have the funds upfront to go down any route— either a cadet scheme or modular with a self-funded type rating or instructor rating. I’d really appreciate some insight into the job market right now and whether there’s a realistic chance of securing a job in General Aviation or as a flight instructor post fATPL. Or, is it just more sensible to lock in a conditional offer through one of these cadet programs, given the current uncertainty?
For some background: I have a degree in Physics and programming experience, but no professional experience in aviation relevant to a job as a pilot.
Thanks in advance for any advice! I've seen rudestuff give some great advice on here regarding best modular routes so perhaps you wouldn't mind weighing in.
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,977
Likes: 329
From: Hong Kong
You've got to be in it to win it. Get a licence and you might get a job, don't get a licence and you definitely won't get a job. That's all on you and how much you want to be a pilot.
The first job is always the hardest. It requires timing, ability and luck.
Timing: You can't control the waves but you can choose when to get in the water. Restraint (to qoute Mentzer) is the hardest exercise of all. If you want to fly and you don't mind playing the long game then train modular up to CPL/IR all single engine. This saves money, buys you time to judge the market and saves your ATPL exams for 7 years. It also leaves you 11 hours and 2 tests away from a fATPL (so maybe a month or so).
Ability: You can't choose your parents but you take a long hard look at yourself and honestly ask yourself do I have above average ability or do I just have the money and want it a lot? Ability can also be enhanced through hard work. Ultimately the only thing you have to show a first employer is exam results and first time passes.
Luck: Half of everything (to quote 006) is luck. You will need to make a leap of faith at some point, but you can make your own luck to a certain extent. Sometimes its a case of knowing the right person to get the CV on the right pile. Sometimes you have to think outside the box (I'm not suggesting you change your name from Geoff to Alison but it's an option). It's sometimes easier to get a job internally than externally so if you're willing to play the long game the you could get an office job with a cadet airline whilst you do your flight training. Do a damn good job and ask the CP if I get a pilot licence will you interview me?
The first job is always the hardest. It requires timing, ability and luck.
Timing: You can't control the waves but you can choose when to get in the water. Restraint (to qoute Mentzer) is the hardest exercise of all. If you want to fly and you don't mind playing the long game then train modular up to CPL/IR all single engine. This saves money, buys you time to judge the market and saves your ATPL exams for 7 years. It also leaves you 11 hours and 2 tests away from a fATPL (so maybe a month or so).
Ability: You can't choose your parents but you take a long hard look at yourself and honestly ask yourself do I have above average ability or do I just have the money and want it a lot? Ability can also be enhanced through hard work. Ultimately the only thing you have to show a first employer is exam results and first time passes.
Luck: Half of everything (to quote 006) is luck. You will need to make a leap of faith at some point, but you can make your own luck to a certain extent. Sometimes its a case of knowing the right person to get the CV on the right pile. Sometimes you have to think outside the box (I'm not suggesting you change your name from Geoff to Alison but it's an option). It's sometimes easier to get a job internally than externally so if you're willing to play the long game the you could get an office job with a cadet airline whilst you do your flight training. Do a damn good job and ask the CP if I get a pilot licence will you interview me?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2024
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
You've got to be in it to win it. Get a licence and you might get a job, don't get a licence and you definitely won't get a job. That's all on you and how much you want to be a pilot.
The first job is always the hardest. It requires timing, ability and luck.
Timing: You can't control the waves but you can choose when to get in the water. Restraint (to qoute Mentzer) is the hardest exercise of all. If you want to fly and you don't mind playing the long game then train modular up to CPL/IR all single engine. This saves money, buys you time to judge the market and saves your ATPL exams for 7 years. It also leaves you 11 hours and 2 tests away from a fATPL (so maybe a month or so).
Ability: You can't choose your parents but you take a long hard look at yourself and honestly ask yourself do I have above average ability or do I just have the money and want it a lot? Ability can also be enhanced through hard work. Ultimately the only thing you have to show a first employer is exam results and first time passes.
Luck: Half of everything (to quote 006) is luck. You will need to make a leap of faith at some point, but you can make your own luck to a certain extent. Sometimes its a case of knowing the right person to get the CV on the right pile. Sometimes you have to think outside the box (I'm not suggesting you change your name from Geoff to Alison but it's an option). It's sometimes easier to get a job internally than externally so if you're willing to play the long game the you could get an office job with a cadet airline whilst you do your flight training. Do a damn good job and ask the CP if I get a pilot licence will you interview me?
The first job is always the hardest. It requires timing, ability and luck.
Timing: You can't control the waves but you can choose when to get in the water. Restraint (to qoute Mentzer) is the hardest exercise of all. If you want to fly and you don't mind playing the long game then train modular up to CPL/IR all single engine. This saves money, buys you time to judge the market and saves your ATPL exams for 7 years. It also leaves you 11 hours and 2 tests away from a fATPL (so maybe a month or so).
Ability: You can't choose your parents but you take a long hard look at yourself and honestly ask yourself do I have above average ability or do I just have the money and want it a lot? Ability can also be enhanced through hard work. Ultimately the only thing you have to show a first employer is exam results and first time passes.
Luck: Half of everything (to quote 006) is luck. You will need to make a leap of faith at some point, but you can make your own luck to a certain extent. Sometimes its a case of knowing the right person to get the CV on the right pile. Sometimes you have to think outside the box (I'm not suggesting you change your name from Geoff to Alison but it's an option). It's sometimes easier to get a job internally than externally so if you're willing to play the long game the you could get an office job with a cadet airline whilst you do your flight training. Do a damn good job and ask the CP if I get a pilot licence will you interview me?
What do you think of the Ryanair Future Flyers Academy, offering a full integrated programme including type rating along with a conditional offer? Is this a better option than getting an instructor rating and building hours that way?
I've been trying to find info on the current job market, specifically the flight instructor job market for low-hour pilots. Are instructor rating schools still offering jobs after completing the rating with them? I've heard this is case in America, and I would be happy to move. Would this be a better strategy to get into the airlines ASAP?
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,977
Likes: 329
From: Hong Kong
The only reason I would advocate spending twice as much on an integrated course vs modular would be if there was a job at the end of it, or at least a high % chance of a job. Otherwise I'd favour value for money and go for modular. (If you wanted to improve your chances of employment you can get CPL/IR in both airplanes AND helicopters for the price some people pay for an integrated airplane course!)
As for flight instruction, do a course if you want to be a flight instructor. Don't do it to get an airline job because there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to show that it could hinder you more than help.
Airlines (generally) want experienced type rated people (DEP/DEC) because the training burden is least. Failing that they'll take experienced non-type rated people (NTR) because they know how to operate as a crew and can do a ZFTT course. Lastly they will consider non-type rated people with no multi crew experience. Obviously some airlines take a lot more cadets than others.
Unlike the US, Australia etc, the UK do not place great value on single pilot hours and some would even consider people with a lot of single pilot experience harder to train because they might struggle with the multi crew concept. Don't get me wrong, there are people who can instruct for 1000 hours then get an airline job, but their chances of getting a multi crew job aren't necessarily increased by having those hours vs a 200 hour cadet, and some would say instructor hours might make it harder.
As for flight instruction, do a course if you want to be a flight instructor. Don't do it to get an airline job because there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to show that it could hinder you more than help.
Airlines (generally) want experienced type rated people (DEP/DEC) because the training burden is least. Failing that they'll take experienced non-type rated people (NTR) because they know how to operate as a crew and can do a ZFTT course. Lastly they will consider non-type rated people with no multi crew experience. Obviously some airlines take a lot more cadets than others.
Unlike the US, Australia etc, the UK do not place great value on single pilot hours and some would even consider people with a lot of single pilot experience harder to train because they might struggle with the multi crew concept. Don't get me wrong, there are people who can instruct for 1000 hours then get an airline job, but their chances of getting a multi crew job aren't necessarily increased by having those hours vs a 200 hour cadet, and some would say instructor hours might make it harder.
