2 years with loan or 6 years playing safe.
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Join Date: Mar 2024
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2 years with loan or 6 years playing safe.
Hi everyone. I really really need your piece of advise. I live in Portugal and I'm currently 33 years old (turning 34 later this year). I've longed for becoming a pilot since I was 15 but life sure made sure I wouldn't get it easy. 18 years later here I am and the dream is yet to be fulfilled.
Now, here's the thing. With my current job I'm making 950 after taxes and paying for my expenses so I can only save around 800 bucks a month (and that's living of 150 bucks a month). Because of some personal situations in my live I currently only have 5k saved. Here in Portugal the course runs for 70-75k. I have a steady job but I pretty much hate it. With this said I have two options.
Ask for a loan to a bank to give me the 70k which would probably make me able to get the full course in under 2 years so I would be 35 once I finished it. But then, even if I kept saving as I'm doing I would still be 50k in debt which, if I didn't get a job right away it would put me in an awful situation, and to that we can add maybe another 30k for a type rating if I landed a job at a company.
My other option is to do this the modular way which would take me probably around 6 years, and I would end with no debt to a bank, and even if I had to ask for a loan for the type it would be around 30k not 80k left.
My only fear with this route is that I'll be finishing my ATPL Frozen close to 40 years old, so maybe by the. I won't be so hirable. I don't mind lading a job at a low cost, but this 950 bucks a month life won't cut it forever.
I'm lucky enough that I have a room where to sleep and food because I work in the military but I don't even have my own house and I feel like I'm stuck doing a job I hate.
A friend of mine took the chance and he was lucky enough to land a job at Hi-Fly within less than 6 months but I feel that it is too risky because I may end up not having enough to pay back the bank and not having enough to ask for a new loan for a type rating so I would end up in debt and unable to secure a job as a pilot.
I seriously thought about setting up a fund raise action of sorts.. after all, all it would take is for 70000 people to tip in with 1 buck... I know it sounds ridiculous, but I'm getting kinda desperate here. Anyway, no one would tip me to get my license, so I'm not even going there. I'm barely able to sleep at night over worrying about this.
With my work schedule in the military I'm not able to get a second job, so that option is a no go as well.
I hope you and your experience can point me in the right direction.
Now, here's the thing. With my current job I'm making 950 after taxes and paying for my expenses so I can only save around 800 bucks a month (and that's living of 150 bucks a month). Because of some personal situations in my live I currently only have 5k saved. Here in Portugal the course runs for 70-75k. I have a steady job but I pretty much hate it. With this said I have two options.
Ask for a loan to a bank to give me the 70k which would probably make me able to get the full course in under 2 years so I would be 35 once I finished it. But then, even if I kept saving as I'm doing I would still be 50k in debt which, if I didn't get a job right away it would put me in an awful situation, and to that we can add maybe another 30k for a type rating if I landed a job at a company.
My other option is to do this the modular way which would take me probably around 6 years, and I would end with no debt to a bank, and even if I had to ask for a loan for the type it would be around 30k not 80k left.
My only fear with this route is that I'll be finishing my ATPL Frozen close to 40 years old, so maybe by the. I won't be so hirable. I don't mind lading a job at a low cost, but this 950 bucks a month life won't cut it forever.
I'm lucky enough that I have a room where to sleep and food because I work in the military but I don't even have my own house and I feel like I'm stuck doing a job I hate.
A friend of mine took the chance and he was lucky enough to land a job at Hi-Fly within less than 6 months but I feel that it is too risky because I may end up not having enough to pay back the bank and not having enough to ask for a new loan for a type rating so I would end up in debt and unable to secure a job as a pilot.
I seriously thought about setting up a fund raise action of sorts.. after all, all it would take is for 70000 people to tip in with 1 buck... I know it sounds ridiculous, but I'm getting kinda desperate here. Anyway, no one would tip me to get my license, so I'm not even going there. I'm barely able to sleep at night over worrying about this.
With my work schedule in the military I'm not able to get a second job, so that option is a no go as well.
I hope you and your experience can point me in the right direction.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Age: 43
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Hello Satamanster.
Setting up a GoFundMe or something similar is not the silliest idea I've every heard for paying for ones licenses. There are people who have successfully raised a few thousand to a few tens of thousands of dollars for their education, and if nothing else it cuts down the burden for any loan.
Do not let your age deter you. I have worked with and trained many pilots who got to the airlines in their late 30s and early 40s. The oldest gentleman I ever trained who had not previously been a pilot was in his late 50s. Like you he had a burning desire to be a pilot and wanted to fulfill his childhood dream. It's not that you become less desirable with age, quite the opposite: many airlines look for older pilots because they bring with them certain life experiences that youth simply does not and cannot have. Decision making, situational awareness, conflict resolution, and emergency management are often well developed in other industries that become an asset, not a hindrance, with age. One of the last students I trained in the sim before coming back to the line was a 42-year old ER nurse. While her flying was on par for her experience, she was light years ahead of everyone with her abilities to manage an emergency. I learned lots from watching her, so yeah - age isn't an issue.
Also, don't look to your friends as examples for what will happen with your career. Your friend is employable as a pilot right now. You are not. Not for at least 2 years. At that time, you could find yourself landing a job inside 2 months after your training, or like many of my contemporaries, you'll be looking for a job for up to 6 years because some douches flew airplanes into a buildings (or, like some of my airline students, because a disease went rampant through the world). There is no guaranteed job at the end of your studies. That is the risk you are taking with any education. But, if you're willing to move outside Portugal, then the job hunt becomes vastly easier.
Now, back to money. I paid for half my training out-of-pocket, and I paid for some with a bank loan. Looking back at the way interest rates were and how my career could have developed, I wish I had used a bank loan for all of it. I would have been in a seat much sooner, and while I don't regret any career decisions I made once I was employed, I do regret not getting to the stage where I could be employed quicker. But, interest rates for a personal loan were quite high when I took one out. I seem to remember 15% or so. The same bank now has backed off a little bit, but they're still hovering around 13% for an unsecured loan. A quick google search shows interest rates in Portugal are about the same - 10 - 13%. And remember that most banks have you begin paying that as soon as you've got the money in your hand, so that $800 savings will not be $800 for long. You have to be OK with that.
If you are, go for the loan. Even if it takes a while to get a job, you'll make that back and then some over a 10-20 year career.
If you cannot stomach that, then you'll have to go the modular route. By your estimation, it'll take longer, but so what. Maybe that means you weather the next downturn. You also don't know who you'll run into during that time that might give you a leg up for your first job.
So I suppose the advice I have is the same that any therapist gives their patients: what do you think, what can you stomach, and go with that?
Setting up a GoFundMe or something similar is not the silliest idea I've every heard for paying for ones licenses. There are people who have successfully raised a few thousand to a few tens of thousands of dollars for their education, and if nothing else it cuts down the burden for any loan.
Do not let your age deter you. I have worked with and trained many pilots who got to the airlines in their late 30s and early 40s. The oldest gentleman I ever trained who had not previously been a pilot was in his late 50s. Like you he had a burning desire to be a pilot and wanted to fulfill his childhood dream. It's not that you become less desirable with age, quite the opposite: many airlines look for older pilots because they bring with them certain life experiences that youth simply does not and cannot have. Decision making, situational awareness, conflict resolution, and emergency management are often well developed in other industries that become an asset, not a hindrance, with age. One of the last students I trained in the sim before coming back to the line was a 42-year old ER nurse. While her flying was on par for her experience, she was light years ahead of everyone with her abilities to manage an emergency. I learned lots from watching her, so yeah - age isn't an issue.
Also, don't look to your friends as examples for what will happen with your career. Your friend is employable as a pilot right now. You are not. Not for at least 2 years. At that time, you could find yourself landing a job inside 2 months after your training, or like many of my contemporaries, you'll be looking for a job for up to 6 years because some douches flew airplanes into a buildings (or, like some of my airline students, because a disease went rampant through the world). There is no guaranteed job at the end of your studies. That is the risk you are taking with any education. But, if you're willing to move outside Portugal, then the job hunt becomes vastly easier.
Now, back to money. I paid for half my training out-of-pocket, and I paid for some with a bank loan. Looking back at the way interest rates were and how my career could have developed, I wish I had used a bank loan for all of it. I would have been in a seat much sooner, and while I don't regret any career decisions I made once I was employed, I do regret not getting to the stage where I could be employed quicker. But, interest rates for a personal loan were quite high when I took one out. I seem to remember 15% or so. The same bank now has backed off a little bit, but they're still hovering around 13% for an unsecured loan. A quick google search shows interest rates in Portugal are about the same - 10 - 13%. And remember that most banks have you begin paying that as soon as you've got the money in your hand, so that $800 savings will not be $800 for long. You have to be OK with that.
If you are, go for the loan. Even if it takes a while to get a job, you'll make that back and then some over a 10-20 year career.
If you cannot stomach that, then you'll have to go the modular route. By your estimation, it'll take longer, but so what. Maybe that means you weather the next downturn. You also don't know who you'll run into during that time that might give you a leg up for your first job.
So I suppose the advice I have is the same that any therapist gives their patients: what do you think, what can you stomach, and go with that?
Just to add. Training is always more expensive than it's made out to be.
There's things like books, headset, uniform (if the school insists), living costs, extra lessons and even type rating.
So if you decide to get a loan (which I recommend), take out a bit more than planned.
And age is definitely a factor for first jobs in this industry. You just have to read what people post on this forum to see that for yourself. I would say anything above 40 years old really reduces your chances.
There's things like books, headset, uniform (if the school insists), living costs, extra lessons and even type rating.
So if you decide to get a loan (which I recommend), take out a bit more than planned.
And age is definitely a factor for first jobs in this industry. You just have to read what people post on this forum to see that for yourself. I would say anything above 40 years old really reduces your chances.
