How does an accident affect airline applications
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2023
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From: Uk
How does an accident affect airline applications
Hi there,
I am dead in the water at finding any information on this subject but about a year ago I had a serious crash. For context, single engine aircraft-engine failure-forced landing in water. The investigation has yet to conclude. I am in the process of converting my foreign license to EASA and I am extremely concerned that when I do apply for the various airlines that I will basically be turned away immediately upon my application due to the accident. Is there anyone out there who has personally or knows of people who have experience in this field? I am extremely concerned that should I go through the mission of converting to EASA it will be a waist of time and money.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I am dead in the water at finding any information on this subject but about a year ago I had a serious crash. For context, single engine aircraft-engine failure-forced landing in water. The investigation has yet to conclude. I am in the process of converting my foreign license to EASA and I am extremely concerned that when I do apply for the various airlines that I will basically be turned away immediately upon my application due to the accident. Is there anyone out there who has personally or knows of people who have experience in this field? I am extremely concerned that should I go through the mission of converting to EASA it will be a waist of time and money.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
de minimus non curat lex
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,510
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From: sunny troon
Until the crash investigation is completed your culpability or otherwise has yet to be established.
If you were totally blameless, then I don’t see how that would adversely impact upon a future career.
If however someone ran out of fuel resulting in a force landing, then any employer would think very carefully about that individual’s judgement…
If you were totally blameless, then I don’t see how that would adversely impact upon a future career.
If however someone ran out of fuel resulting in a force landing, then any employer would think very carefully about that individual’s judgement…
Last edited by parkfell; 9th November 2023 at 07:49. Reason: Syntax
Joined: Oct 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 120
From: Wherever I go, there I am
In a past life I interviewed a few pilots who had a mishap and I know of a few others who have been involved in serious incidents or accidents. In two of those cases the pilots involved were culpable.
Without exception each of these pilots found gainful employment at major airlines on their first application.
Why?
Because they were able to demonstrate three things:
1. Their incident or accident was not caused by wilful negligence on their part;
2. They took responsibility for their actions, without an attempt to defer that responsibility; and
3. They learned from the situation, applied those learnings in their own flying, and shared the knowledge.
We all make mistakes. But knowing that is not enough, we have to own our mistakes, even if there are contributing factors outside our control.
So ask yourself: If the incident or accident you refer to was the result of an action or inaction on your part, how are you going to ensure it doesn’t happen again? And in specifics, not just “I’ll keep a closer eye on xyz…” Be critical of yourself so that you can give an honest and real answer. That’s what the recruiter is looking for.
Now, it is likely you will get turned away by some airlines. That is inevitable. But, think of it this way: if that’s how a company treats you when you’re being open and honest, how do you think they’d treat you when you’re flying the line and you make a mistake? The culture probably sucks.
I don’t want to work for a company that will punish me for being human. If I intentionally do something to bend metal then I deserve to be in jail. But if I make a mistake and zig when I should have zagged, well, we all do that. Sometimes we get away with it, and sometimes we don’t.
Without exception each of these pilots found gainful employment at major airlines on their first application.
Why?
Because they were able to demonstrate three things:
1. Their incident or accident was not caused by wilful negligence on their part;
2. They took responsibility for their actions, without an attempt to defer that responsibility; and
3. They learned from the situation, applied those learnings in their own flying, and shared the knowledge.
We all make mistakes. But knowing that is not enough, we have to own our mistakes, even if there are contributing factors outside our control.
So ask yourself: If the incident or accident you refer to was the result of an action or inaction on your part, how are you going to ensure it doesn’t happen again? And in specifics, not just “I’ll keep a closer eye on xyz…” Be critical of yourself so that you can give an honest and real answer. That’s what the recruiter is looking for.
Now, it is likely you will get turned away by some airlines. That is inevitable. But, think of it this way: if that’s how a company treats you when you’re being open and honest, how do you think they’d treat you when you’re flying the line and you make a mistake? The culture probably sucks.
I don’t want to work for a company that will punish me for being human. If I intentionally do something to bend metal then I deserve to be in jail. But if I make a mistake and zig when I should have zagged, well, we all do that. Sometimes we get away with it, and sometimes we don’t.
Last edited by +TSRA; 19th November 2023 at 23:26. Reason: Because 3 follows 2; grammar
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 7
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From: Uk
Thank you for your kind and wise words. I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have come back on here to continue to search for answers. I did not see your reply from the initial post. but its what I needed to hear. I have learnt alot from the accident. Its been 3 years but the culpability of the accident is yet to be determined. I have come to terms with it and even if I was not technically culpable I do feel like I was in terms of the circumstantial pressure I experienced on the day. I learnt alot from the experience and I do feel like I'm a better pilot for it. I am still trying to tap into the airlines but in the meantime I did find gainful employment despite some difficulty. I do hope I can find a company with the ethos that you portrait. Because I agree, I don't think I would want to work for someone who cant see me as human.
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 1
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From: Arizona
In a past life I interviewed a few pilots who had a mishap and I know of a few others who have been involved in serious incidents or accidents. In two of those cases the pilots involved were culpable.
Without exception each of these pilots found gainful employment at major airlines on their first application.
Why?
Because they were able to demonstrate three things:
1. Their incident or accident was not caused by wilful negligence on their part;
2. They took responsibility for their actions, without an attempt to defer that responsibility; and
3. They learned from the situation, applied those learnings in their own flying, and shared the knowledge.
We all make mistakes. But knowing that is not enough, we have to own our mistakes, even if there are contributing factors outside our control.
So ask yourself: If the incident or accident you refer to was the result of an action or inaction on your part, how are you going to ensure it doesn’t happen again? And in specifics, not just “I’ll keep a closer eye on xyz…” Be critical of yourself so that you can give an honest and real answer. That’s what the recruiter is looking for.
Now, it is likely you will get turned away by some airlines. That is inevitable. But, think of it this way: if that’s how a company treats you when you’re being open and honest, how do you think they’d treat you when you’re flying the line and you make a mistake? The culture probably sucks.
I don’t want to work for a company that will punish me for being human. If I intentionally do something to bend metal then I deserve to be in jail. But if I make a mistake and zig when I should have zagged, well, we all do that. Sometimes we get away with it, and sometimes we don’t.
Without exception each of these pilots found gainful employment at major airlines on their first application.
Why?
Because they were able to demonstrate three things:
1. Their incident or accident was not caused by wilful negligence on their part;
2. They took responsibility for their actions, without an attempt to defer that responsibility; and
3. They learned from the situation, applied those learnings in their own flying, and shared the knowledge.
We all make mistakes. But knowing that is not enough, we have to own our mistakes, even if there are contributing factors outside our control.
So ask yourself: If the incident or accident you refer to was the result of an action or inaction on your part, how are you going to ensure it doesn’t happen again? And in specifics, not just “I’ll keep a closer eye on xyz…” Be critical of yourself so that you can give an honest and real answer. That’s what the recruiter is looking for.
Now, it is likely you will get turned away by some airlines. That is inevitable. But, think of it this way: if that’s how a company treats you when you’re being open and honest, how do you think they’d treat you when you’re flying the line and you make a mistake? The culture probably sucks.
I don’t want to work for a company that will punish me for being human. If I intentionally do something to bend metal then I deserve to be in jail. But if I make a mistake and zig when I should have zagged, well, we all do that. Sometimes we get away with it, and sometimes we don’t.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 7
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From: Uk
I wanted to seek advice on this topic once again as I have received the final report from the accident. I am fairly shocked/concerned by the outcome. In summary the fault is put onto me due to lack of currency and lack of knowledge of the system in question. In reality this is absolutely not true, I was experienced on the aircraft and I have adequate knowledge of the aircraft. The accident occured because of a 1 in a million situation. A safety system was bypassed accidentally by my movement and in the actual emergency that followed there was absolutely no indication that would have lead me to troubleshoot this issue. I had 17 seconds from beginning to end of the emergency. The report is damning and paints me in a terrible light in my opinion while also completely omitting any culpability to the aircraft manufacturer or to the emergency services which took extremely long to arrive, well above the ICAO regulatory guideline times. My main concern with this report is how seriously this will affect my future career. I am formulating a statement in which I take accountability for my errors and I would also like to highlight and fill in the holes that I see in this report. I feel horrible about this accident and it makes me feel like a criminal despite it being a freak accident. I know this will affect any job applications and I am absolutely terrified of the rejection i may face even though I don't believe that I am in any way shape or form unsafe or incompetent. I love aviation but it has been incredibly cruel to me with this and i know there is absolutely nothing I can do to change what this report says. I have spent thousands on licenses and i have invested more than 10 years of my life into this industry and I just feel so terrible about my future in it.
-From a disheartened aviation
To be clear, I was not found guilty of wilful actions that lead to the crash.
-From a disheartened aviation
To be clear, I was not found guilty of wilful actions that lead to the crash.
Joined: Oct 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 120
From: Wherever I go, there I am
Harsh as though this post may come off, I hope you will come to see the best thing for you to do is not to make an emotional decision. Take some time to allow the emotions to cool. Only then should you think about your next steps…
Before you go doing anything drastic, take a deep breath. And another one. And another one. The report is published and you cannot change it. Nothing good comes from you “highlight[ing] and fill[ing] in the holes that [you] see in this report.” Doing so could put you further away from obtaining a job, if ever.
It doesn’t matter what the aircraft manufacturer did or did not do, nor does it matter how long emergency services took to come to you. Highlighting those concerns to a recruiter is the type of deflection I was talking about in my earlier post. It is hard to provide specific advice without reading the report, but this is the ultimate example of being the pilot in command - whatever happens, it is on your shoulders and no one else’s. It’s not cruel or unusual for this to be pointed out. An old Chief Pilot of mine used to say “if you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen”, and this applies at all PICs: if you cannot handle that you will be named as one of if not the responsible party in almost all accidents and incidents, this is not the industry for you. And I say that in a generalized sense, not directly at you as a person.
You will feel absolutely gutted, and for a long time. Remember that a report doesn’t care about our feelings. It is meant to look at the accident from an outside perspective. You say you feel you’ll be viewed as unsafe or incompetent, but the only way that happens is if you don’t look at your own actions first and take responsibility for your part in it. As such, there is one, and only one, question you have to answer: Did you as the operating pilot make a mistake? It doesn’t matter if what follows was a 1 in a million situation or that you only had 17 seconds to handle the emergency, or even if your mistake contributed to the accident. Did you make a mistake? Could you have been more current? Could you have known the system better? Contributing factors are just that: contributing. How did you contribute to the accident?
By your own admission you did make a mistake - you accidentally bypassed an emergency system. An accident can be an error. It could be negligent. But it’s not always wilful negligence. That’s a whole different ballgame. You didn’t mean to do it, and that carries a lot of weight in an interview. As you say, you were not found guilty of wilful actions. That doesn’t change the outcome of the accident, but accepting the responsibility can change the outcome of how you are viewed by recruiters, especially if you describe the actions you took to avoid a similar situation in the future without placing the blame on others (even if there is blame to go around).
As I said in my previous post, there will be companies who refuse to look at your application. It may take longer for you to get hired, possibly longer than you may be comfortable with. Accepting the responsibility without deflection or deference and coming up with corrective actions for yourself is how you will get hired in the future. Failure to do that will mean that you have wasted your time and money.
Before you go doing anything drastic, take a deep breath. And another one. And another one. The report is published and you cannot change it. Nothing good comes from you “highlight[ing] and fill[ing] in the holes that [you] see in this report.” Doing so could put you further away from obtaining a job, if ever.
It doesn’t matter what the aircraft manufacturer did or did not do, nor does it matter how long emergency services took to come to you. Highlighting those concerns to a recruiter is the type of deflection I was talking about in my earlier post. It is hard to provide specific advice without reading the report, but this is the ultimate example of being the pilot in command - whatever happens, it is on your shoulders and no one else’s. It’s not cruel or unusual for this to be pointed out. An old Chief Pilot of mine used to say “if you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen”, and this applies at all PICs: if you cannot handle that you will be named as one of if not the responsible party in almost all accidents and incidents, this is not the industry for you. And I say that in a generalized sense, not directly at you as a person.
You will feel absolutely gutted, and for a long time. Remember that a report doesn’t care about our feelings. It is meant to look at the accident from an outside perspective. You say you feel you’ll be viewed as unsafe or incompetent, but the only way that happens is if you don’t look at your own actions first and take responsibility for your part in it. As such, there is one, and only one, question you have to answer: Did you as the operating pilot make a mistake? It doesn’t matter if what follows was a 1 in a million situation or that you only had 17 seconds to handle the emergency, or even if your mistake contributed to the accident. Did you make a mistake? Could you have been more current? Could you have known the system better? Contributing factors are just that: contributing. How did you contribute to the accident?
By your own admission you did make a mistake - you accidentally bypassed an emergency system. An accident can be an error. It could be negligent. But it’s not always wilful negligence. That’s a whole different ballgame. You didn’t mean to do it, and that carries a lot of weight in an interview. As you say, you were not found guilty of wilful actions. That doesn’t change the outcome of the accident, but accepting the responsibility can change the outcome of how you are viewed by recruiters, especially if you describe the actions you took to avoid a similar situation in the future without placing the blame on others (even if there is blame to go around).
As I said in my previous post, there will be companies who refuse to look at your application. It may take longer for you to get hired, possibly longer than you may be comfortable with. Accepting the responsibility without deflection or deference and coming up with corrective actions for yourself is how you will get hired in the future. Failure to do that will mean that you have wasted your time and money.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Uk
Harsh as though this post may come off, I hope you will come to see the best thing for you to do is not to make an emotional decision. Take some time to allow the emotions to cool. Only then should you think about your next steps…
Before you go doing anything drastic, take a deep breath. And another one. And another one. The report is published and you cannot change it. Nothing good comes from you “highlight[ing] and fill[ing] in the holes that [you] see in this report.” Doing so could put you further away from obtaining a job, if ever.
It doesn’t matter what the aircraft manufacturer did or did not do, nor does it matter how long emergency services took to come to you. Highlighting those concerns to a recruiter is the type of deflection I was talking about in my earlier post. It is hard to provide specific advice without reading the report, but this is the ultimate example of being the pilot in command - whatever happens, it is on your shoulders and no one else’s. It’s not cruel or unusual for this to be pointed out. An old Chief Pilot of mine used to say “if you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen”, and this applies at all PICs: if you cannot handle that you will be named as one of if not the responsible party in almost all accidents and incidents, this is not the industry for you. And I say that in a generalized sense, not directly at you as a person.
You will feel absolutely gutted, and for a long time. Remember that a report doesn’t care about our feelings. It is meant to look at the accident from an outside perspective. You say you feel you’ll be viewed as unsafe or incompetent, but the only way that happens is if you don’t look at your own actions first and take responsibility for your part in it. As such, there is one, and only one, question you have to answer: Did you as the operating pilot make a mistake? It doesn’t matter if what follows was a 1 in a million situation or that you only had 17 seconds to handle the emergency, or even if your mistake contributed to the accident. Did you make a mistake? Could you have been more current? Could you have known the system better? Contributing factors are just that: contributing. How did you contribute to the accident?
By your own admission you did make a mistake - you accidentally bypassed an emergency system. An accident can be an error. It could be negligent. But it’s not always wilful negligence. That’s a whole different ballgame. You didn’t mean to do it, and that carries a lot of weight in an interview. As you say, you were not found guilty of wilful actions. That doesn’t change the outcome of the accident, but accepting the responsibility can change the outcome of how you are viewed by recruiters, especially if you describe the actions you took to avoid a similar situation in the future without placing the blame on others (even if there is blame to go around).
As I said in my previous post, there will be companies who refuse to look at your application. It may take longer for you to get hired, possibly longer than you may be comfortable with. Accepting the responsibility without deflection or deference and coming up with corrective actions for yourself is how you will get hired in the future. Failure to do that will mean that you have wasted your time and money.
Before you go doing anything drastic, take a deep breath. And another one. And another one. The report is published and you cannot change it. Nothing good comes from you “highlight[ing] and fill[ing] in the holes that [you] see in this report.” Doing so could put you further away from obtaining a job, if ever.
It doesn’t matter what the aircraft manufacturer did or did not do, nor does it matter how long emergency services took to come to you. Highlighting those concerns to a recruiter is the type of deflection I was talking about in my earlier post. It is hard to provide specific advice without reading the report, but this is the ultimate example of being the pilot in command - whatever happens, it is on your shoulders and no one else’s. It’s not cruel or unusual for this to be pointed out. An old Chief Pilot of mine used to say “if you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen”, and this applies at all PICs: if you cannot handle that you will be named as one of if not the responsible party in almost all accidents and incidents, this is not the industry for you. And I say that in a generalized sense, not directly at you as a person.
You will feel absolutely gutted, and for a long time. Remember that a report doesn’t care about our feelings. It is meant to look at the accident from an outside perspective. You say you feel you’ll be viewed as unsafe or incompetent, but the only way that happens is if you don’t look at your own actions first and take responsibility for your part in it. As such, there is one, and only one, question you have to answer: Did you as the operating pilot make a mistake? It doesn’t matter if what follows was a 1 in a million situation or that you only had 17 seconds to handle the emergency, or even if your mistake contributed to the accident. Did you make a mistake? Could you have been more current? Could you have known the system better? Contributing factors are just that: contributing. How did you contribute to the accident?
By your own admission you did make a mistake - you accidentally bypassed an emergency system. An accident can be an error. It could be negligent. But it’s not always wilful negligence. That’s a whole different ballgame. You didn’t mean to do it, and that carries a lot of weight in an interview. As you say, you were not found guilty of wilful actions. That doesn’t change the outcome of the accident, but accepting the responsibility can change the outcome of how you are viewed by recruiters, especially if you describe the actions you took to avoid a similar situation in the future without placing the blame on others (even if there is blame to go around).
As I said in my previous post, there will be companies who refuse to look at your application. It may take longer for you to get hired, possibly longer than you may be comfortable with. Accepting the responsibility without deflection or deference and coming up with corrective actions for yourself is how you will get hired in the future. Failure to do that will mean that you have wasted your time and money.
Thank you for writing out your reply. all the best.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,759
Likes: 424
From: GA, USA
I’m getting the impression you were ferrying an aircraft that may or may not have been very familiar to you. You may have been ‘legal’ to fly it as in current in category and class but not necessarily proficient in this aircraft.
You made a mistake which ultimately resulted in a hull loss. I would expect you to tell me that in an interview.
In a previous job I’ve twice hired a pilot for a flight instructor position that had been involved in an accident.
One had a loss of power after a night take off in a single engine Piper over a wooded area.
The other crashed in a supermarket parking lot after a fuel transfer pump failed and he lost access to an auxiliary tank.
Both became successful flight instructors, one is now an airline pilot, the other an airport manager for unrelated reasons.
Both interviewed in person.
I turned one down over the phone as he told me he didn’t think it was necessary to notify the NTSB after his incident which involved a malfunction that requires NTSB notification.
You made a mistake which ultimately resulted in a hull loss. I would expect you to tell me that in an interview.
In a previous job I’ve twice hired a pilot for a flight instructor position that had been involved in an accident.
One had a loss of power after a night take off in a single engine Piper over a wooded area.
The other crashed in a supermarket parking lot after a fuel transfer pump failed and he lost access to an auxiliary tank.
Both became successful flight instructors, one is now an airline pilot, the other an airport manager for unrelated reasons.
Both interviewed in person.
I turned one down over the phone as he told me he didn’t think it was necessary to notify the NTSB after his incident which involved a malfunction that requires NTSB notification.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Uk
You are correct, and yes one would think such based on the report. contrary to this I do feel I had sufficient experience/familiarity with the airframe. With that said in terms of training for this particular situation I am yet to find a training regime for this aircraft that includes a scenario involving this particular system purely because of the fact that it is basically never touched. In terms of pre-flight flows it is included which is something I always check but in air it is the last thing one thinks of because of its location. In terms of indications, post emergency situation there was no clear indications that this was the issue. Irrespective of all this yes I made a mistake and I think the entire decision making process that lead to this situation was flawed. Its a tough situation because while I would very much like to defend myself from the harshness of this report which I do not necessarily agree with, this most likely will be viewed as trying to shift blame or to not take accountability which is absolutely not what my intention is. I take responsibility for it, the buck stopped with me and my decision lead to this. From what you are saying I just have to be brutally honest and show how my decision making has changed post the accident and just hope for the best.
Thank you for your insight. I appreciate it.
Thank you for your insight. I appreciate it.
