Jerez/Spannish airspace & ground school top-up notes?
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Joined: Feb 2002
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From: UK
Jerez/Spannish airspace & ground school top-up notes?
Hi all,
Just come back from Jerez and am about to confirm my acceptance of a place for October, but have a few Q's for those familiar with Jerez:
1. WHAT IS THE AIRSPACE LIKE?......OATS made me a bit concerned that flying in Jerez is like flying on a farm in the middle of nowhere - hence you graduate with no propper airspace experience and no clue how to deal with any situation thrown at you, (unlike OATS ofcourse, who fly constantly in LHR and London area.)
2. OXFD GROUNDSCHOOL MANNUALS TO TOP-UP WITH?......One of the students there mentioned that it may be worth bringing a couple of Oxfd groundschool books just to top-up some of the weaker BAe ones, he mentioned Nav 1 (and then got called away) - which ones are the weak ones in need of back-up?
3. I've been offered a noise reduction headset for my birthday....are there any that don't work in Jerez?
Cheers for now,
and if any of you going in October want to get in touch, I'm on : [email protected]
Just come back from Jerez and am about to confirm my acceptance of a place for October, but have a few Q's for those familiar with Jerez:
1. WHAT IS THE AIRSPACE LIKE?......OATS made me a bit concerned that flying in Jerez is like flying on a farm in the middle of nowhere - hence you graduate with no propper airspace experience and no clue how to deal with any situation thrown at you, (unlike OATS ofcourse, who fly constantly in LHR and London area.)
2. OXFD GROUNDSCHOOL MANNUALS TO TOP-UP WITH?......One of the students there mentioned that it may be worth bringing a couple of Oxfd groundschool books just to top-up some of the weaker BAe ones, he mentioned Nav 1 (and then got called away) - which ones are the weak ones in need of back-up?
3. I've been offered a noise reduction headset for my birthday....are there any that don't work in Jerez?
Cheers for now,
and if any of you going in October want to get in touch, I'm on : [email protected]
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 447
Likes: 2
From: uk
What a lot of rubbish!
I canīt believe oxford can make such comments when they are flying out of Tyler. Jerez is based in some of the busiest airspace in southern Spain. Right in the middle of class D not like Oxford. Also it has a VOR, Radar and ILS all essential for your training. So you donīt have to waste money transiting to other airports.
Also the cost at Jerez in considerably less and as you have seen the facilities are by far the best in the world, (as per comments from most visiting CAAFU examiners).
So there, look forward to seeing you here.
BB
Also the cost at Jerez in considerably less and as you have seen the facilities are by far the best in the world, (as per comments from most visiting CAAFU examiners).
So there, look forward to seeing you here.
BB
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: UK
Well, the ground school notes are appaling at Jerez. Indeed the majority never get used and most students end up using Oxford's to pass the exams.
Its worth investing in a pair of headsets, the one's supplied in the aircraft are pretty much the bottom of the range and are left sitting in the sun while being transferred from sweaty head to sweaty head.
And as for the airspace, it has its plusses and minuses as does anywhere, but the hot weather comes with as many problems as does the bad UK wx.
Don't be lured on what you see of the grounds, and the accomodation, that won't get you your ATPL. Oxford may not be a pleasure paradise but they've got the basics right at least.
Its worth investing in a pair of headsets, the one's supplied in the aircraft are pretty much the bottom of the range and are left sitting in the sun while being transferred from sweaty head to sweaty head.
And as for the airspace, it has its plusses and minuses as does anywhere, but the hot weather comes with as many problems as does the bad UK wx.
Don't be lured on what you see of the grounds, and the accomodation, that won't get you your ATPL. Oxford may not be a pleasure paradise but they've got the basics right at least.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7
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From: boston
In total agreement with Taking,
BAE groundschool notes have always been notoriously ***** - just ask anyone who's trained with them during the last 15 or so years.
You'll need OATS Met, Airframes (excluding engines), Performance (crap instructor), Flight Planning and Nav for starters.
WX does throw a spanner in the works more than you'd think. Mist am, high temps pm, rain + wind in winter and crosswinds the rest of the time. If that isn't enough then the tower love nothing more than to lose your flight plan!
Novelty of campus wears off after a few weeks. Expect to pay for food as the ***** dished up in the canteen is worthy of Battersea dogs home and nothing more.
Buy a headset - you don't wanna be sharing with all those sweaty geezers do you?
Stay happy.
haggard the horrible.
BAE groundschool notes have always been notoriously ***** - just ask anyone who's trained with them during the last 15 or so years.
You'll need OATS Met, Airframes (excluding engines), Performance (crap instructor), Flight Planning and Nav for starters.
WX does throw a spanner in the works more than you'd think. Mist am, high temps pm, rain + wind in winter and crosswinds the rest of the time. If that isn't enough then the tower love nothing more than to lose your flight plan!
Novelty of campus wears off after a few weeks. Expect to pay for food as the ***** dished up in the canteen is worthy of Battersea dogs home and nothing more.
Buy a headset - you don't wanna be sharing with all those sweaty geezers do you?
Stay happy.
haggard the horrible.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 594
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From: A PC!
Jerez food
Haggard - wrong about the food, old pal. I eat there most days and the food is good - even if the 14 rotation on the menu gets a bit tiresome after a while.
Still, our ex-OATS students can't praise food and accom highly enough - they are less than complimentary about the OATS offerings (and I don't mean the porridge!).
That said, it is a long trip to the pub - but the cost saving on two rounds of drinks covers the taxi!!!!!! Long live low price Cervesas!
Still, our ex-OATS students can't praise food and accom highly enough - they are less than complimentary about the OATS offerings (and I don't mean the porridge!).
That said, it is a long trip to the pub - but the cost saving on two rounds of drinks covers the taxi!!!!!! Long live low price Cervesas!
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,846
From: England
Any institutional food is going to grate after a year. Personally I found nothing wrong with it.
Its a bit pointless trying to rate schools on airspace issues. Jerez is great IF you can live out of the UK full time for a year AND you see being in Andalucia as a bonus. For some the blue gates are like a prison. For others the place is a holiday camp.
I fell into the latter category but it takes all sorts.
WWW
Its a bit pointless trying to rate schools on airspace issues. Jerez is great IF you can live out of the UK full time for a year AND you see being in Andalucia as a bonus. For some the blue gates are like a prison. For others the place is a holiday camp.
I fell into the latter category but it takes all sorts.
WWW
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7
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From: boston
You chaps are easily pleased in the oral satisifaction dept.
I suggest the establishment 700 yards south west for your true satisfaction.
haggard the horrible.
PS: Trust me - the food is not the flavour of the month..... 'scuse the pun.....
I suggest the establishment 700 yards south west for your true satisfaction.
haggard the horrible.
PS: Trust me - the food is not the flavour of the month..... 'scuse the pun.....
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4
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From: UK
Granted the food maybe included in the price but quite frankly it's so bad you'd rather this place was self catering and the price be further droped.
This place has the potential to be fantastic but the fact of the matter is that those who call the shots are happy for it to be mediocre, and mediocre it certainly is from a training point of view.
This place has the potential to be fantastic but the fact of the matter is that those who call the shots are happy for it to be mediocre, and mediocre it certainly is from a training point of view.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 594
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From: A PC!
Take it from someone directly involved in the training - mediocre is not an option for us.
As for food and accom - I suggest you RESEARCH FULLY what the opposition have to offer before bad mouthing (pardon my pun!) our offerings.
Haggard and Taking a Stand - if it is so bad, why are you/were you here not somewhere else?
As for food and accom - I suggest you RESEARCH FULLY what the opposition have to offer before bad mouthing (pardon my pun!) our offerings.
Haggard and Taking a Stand - if it is so bad, why are you/were you here not somewhere else?
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7
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From: boston
Hi moggie (MS?),
We are not bad mouthing the place just telling it how we see it. BAE does have considerable plusses which everyone knows about.
It is only fair to balance out all the bow-down and praise normally thrown at the place from first-time visitors. They see things through the eyes of eager beavers chomping at the bit to get cracking. Bad points of view are swept aside in the fashion described by Proone Towers on the EZ and FRA thread currently running.
Sorry if I do not lap up the Jerez "lifestyle in the sun" promotional nonsense. I feel the guys running the show have draconian views on management that stem from their days in the military.
If you are who I think you are then you are one of the good guys.
Stay happy.
haggard the horrible.
We are not bad mouthing the place just telling it how we see it. BAE does have considerable plusses which everyone knows about.
It is only fair to balance out all the bow-down and praise normally thrown at the place from first-time visitors. They see things through the eyes of eager beavers chomping at the bit to get cracking. Bad points of view are swept aside in the fashion described by Proone Towers on the EZ and FRA thread currently running.
Sorry if I do not lap up the Jerez "lifestyle in the sun" promotional nonsense. I feel the guys running the show have draconian views on management that stem from their days in the military.
If you are who I think you are then you are one of the good guys.
Stay happy.
haggard the horrible.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 594
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From: A PC!
I'm not who you think you are but I am one of the good guys, anyway! However, we think we know who YOU are!!!!!!!
Who says we all love it? There are warts, too, but I just take issue with you on the food front - see what the enemy has to offer first!
No comment on GS notes - not my field, I'm afraid.
Who says we all love it? There are warts, too, but I just take issue with you on the food front - see what the enemy has to offer first!
No comment on GS notes - not my field, I'm afraid.
Last edited by moggie; 29th August 2002 at 13:01.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2
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From: UK
all the guys who have come here from oxford to do joc couldnīt get enough of the food, and besides, if you do get bored there are great (cheap) restaurants in town and in puerto. as for the ground school notes, we donīt need the four forces ones, but i passed all my jars (first time) with the notes handed out in class, and didnīt use oxford once. iīm going to the pool now to top up the tan... you canīt do that in oxford....
iīm going to the pool now to top up the tan... you canīt do that in oxford....
Last edited by Catseyes; 29th August 2002 at 14:17.
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,846
From: England
Don't get noise cancelling - it hampers your training.
DC's are OK but to ensure perfect harmony between you and your instructor get some bottom of the range Peltors at about Ģ180.
Good luck,
WWW
DC's are OK but to ensure perfect harmony between you and your instructor get some bottom of the range Peltors at about Ģ180.
Good luck,
WWW
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: UK
Any pair of headsets will do, have your own pair for hygiene reasons if nothing else.
You would have thought that investing 52k would guarantee you a set of at least useable notes but since BAe still hasnīt got its act together having been here over 2 years just invest in a set of Oxford manuals because all youīll get otherwise is endless scrappy one sided photocopies, how professional!
And if that wasnīt enough, as the new managementīs first act in this place, a letter has been sent round to all students listing all the possible ways in which they can now terminate our contracts and have us booted out. Charming.
Take your money elsewhere, this place just isnīt up to scratch for the price tag.
You would have thought that investing 52k would guarantee you a set of at least useable notes but since BAe still hasnīt got its act together having been here over 2 years just invest in a set of Oxford manuals because all youīll get otherwise is endless scrappy one sided photocopies, how professional!
And if that wasnīt enough, as the new managementīs first act in this place, a letter has been sent round to all students listing all the possible ways in which they can now terminate our contracts and have us booted out. Charming.
Take your money elsewhere, this place just isnīt up to scratch for the price tag.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
From: A PC!
Bitter or what?
Wow, Taking a Stand - If you hate it so much, go!
If you spent less time won the internet you might notice that in between lessons our ground instructors are beavering away re-writing our notes, primarily using the excellent (but superceeded) Prestwick CAA ATPL notes and the many source books out there (not plagirising other peoples notes, I have to add - but doing it from source data). OK, so what we have at the moment is less than perfect but progress is being made.
As for "chopping" people - are you self sponsored or airline sponsored?
I ask because if you are airline sponsored that airline will set a finite limit on how much extra training you may have before they pull the plug - they are after more than just a scrape-through, you must understand. Most airlines demand a higher standard from their cadets than the CAA/JAA minimum - and rightly so (because that standard is not high enough in my opinion).
If you are self sponsored, then we will only allow people to go on wasting money for a certain amount of time - because there are some people who will never make the grade, no matter how much money they throw at their training. Unlike some organisations, we do not feel the desire to take that money from cadets with no hope of them ever making the grade.
This is all explained at the time the contract is signed - and who are the "new management" to whom you refer - because the current guys have been in place for some time (except new Head of Training who has not even had time to unpack!).
Criticism is OK -as long as it is a) honest, b) accurate and c) constructive - if possible. If you think it is all so bad here, have you discussed your feelings with your sponsor or the management here (you mention MS who is one of the most approachable guys I know - having known him for years).
Be constructive - try to change what is wrong. Or belt up and live with it.
If you spent less time won the internet you might notice that in between lessons our ground instructors are beavering away re-writing our notes, primarily using the excellent (but superceeded) Prestwick CAA ATPL notes and the many source books out there (not plagirising other peoples notes, I have to add - but doing it from source data). OK, so what we have at the moment is less than perfect but progress is being made.
As for "chopping" people - are you self sponsored or airline sponsored?
I ask because if you are airline sponsored that airline will set a finite limit on how much extra training you may have before they pull the plug - they are after more than just a scrape-through, you must understand. Most airlines demand a higher standard from their cadets than the CAA/JAA minimum - and rightly so (because that standard is not high enough in my opinion).
If you are self sponsored, then we will only allow people to go on wasting money for a certain amount of time - because there are some people who will never make the grade, no matter how much money they throw at their training. Unlike some organisations, we do not feel the desire to take that money from cadets with no hope of them ever making the grade.
This is all explained at the time the contract is signed - and who are the "new management" to whom you refer - because the current guys have been in place for some time (except new Head of Training who has not even had time to unpack!).
Criticism is OK -as long as it is a) honest, b) accurate and c) constructive - if possible. If you think it is all so bad here, have you discussed your feelings with your sponsor or the management here (you mention MS who is one of the most approachable guys I know - having known him for years).
Be constructive - try to change what is wrong. Or belt up and live with it.
Last edited by moggie; 30th August 2002 at 20:35.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4
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From: UK
The fact of the matter is that when you are splashing out on your competitors material because what you are provided with is not good enough, well that simply wonīt do.
My sponsors are well aware of the situation and quite frankly if I was them Iīd be furious, itīs taken 2 years to get round to doing something about it.
The issues raised here are not pedantic little gripes, they are fundamentally important; people have been saying things long before I even arrived here but who listens?
Alot more could be said, but letīs leave it at that for the moment.
My sponsors are well aware of the situation and quite frankly if I was them Iīd be furious, itīs taken 2 years to get round to doing something about it.
The issues raised here are not pedantic little gripes, they are fundamentally important; people have been saying things long before I even arrived here but who listens?
Alot more could be said, but letīs leave it at that for the moment.
