BCFT
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: sw london
BCFT
Anyone heard what is happening at BCFT, I have heard they might be closing their doors? I understand a number of integrated students have had their training ceased and there has been some staff redundancies.
Educated Hillbilly
Joined: Dec 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,003
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From: From the Hills
There was 4 / 5 schools at Bournemouth doing.CPL IR training in the past BCFT, PAT, PTC, EPTA and L3. BCFT was the longest surviving. It use to be a wasps nest of Dutchess aircraft in the peak day (2004 to 2008).
This means there are no schools at Bournemouth left offering CPL IR training.
This means there are no schools at Bournemouth left offering CPL IR training.
Professional Student
Joined: Mar 2005
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 678
Likes: 25
From: My Secret Island Lair
There was 4 / 5 schools at Bournemouth doing.CPL IR training in the past BCFT, PAT, PTC, EPTA and L3. BCFT was the longest surviving. It use to be a wasps nest of Dutchess aircraft in the peak day (2004 to 2008).
This means there are no schools at Bournemouth left offering CPL IR training.
This means there are no schools at Bournemouth left offering CPL IR training.
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 201
Likes: 57
From: in the sky
Shame
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 103
Likes: 2
From: UK
With the iron curtain going up at the end of this year in respect of training in the EU for a UK CAA licence, the Brexit dividend for UK CPL / ME IR students would appear to be a diminishing selection of schools to choose from, and likely prices and slower timescales.
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 1,846
Likes: 4
From: Bristol, England
The other way of looking at it is that the only ATOs that will be able to offer two licences, both EASA and UK, for doing one course are ATOs in the UK. As far as I know no EU schools are bothering to apply.
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 81
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From: Palm Beach
I hear rumors they may owe money to students and to their previous training partners in the USA.....anybody affected might like to post, however, it would be nice to think that this is one flight school demise that will not affect anyone negatively from a financial standpoint.
Once again, the consistent advice from AW, myself and many others on this forum to always go modular and pay only relatively small amounts at a time is again highlighted, even the assumed "better schools" can fall.
Final thought, why?, what's going wrong? Are profit margins so squeezed? Are prices offered by schools correctly reflecting actual costs. I hear some schools work on as little as a 5% margin, surely not worth the effort. \
SJ
Once again, the consistent advice from AW, myself and many others on this forum to always go modular and pay only relatively small amounts at a time is again highlighted, even the assumed "better schools" can fall.
Final thought, why?, what's going wrong? Are profit margins so squeezed? Are prices offered by schools correctly reflecting actual costs. I hear some schools work on as little as a 5% margin, surely not worth the effort. \
SJ
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 1,846
Likes: 4
From: Bristol, England
What's wrong? Most of the integrated ATOs I speak to say they are running at one third to one half capacity. This is not the case with modular ATOs who are generally back to pre-COVID levels, blame L3 I guess. Note that many / most (its impossible to know) integrated ATOs use the up-front payments from arriving students for cash flow to keep the earlier courses flying. You can see what might happen when recruitment falls off. Knowing BCFT's management they will have ceased trading as soon as it became clear they could not continue so hopefully not too many students have lost money but the potential losses in other ATOs when they go bust are huge, particularly if they are of the sort to keep trading with negative balance sheets running into many millions. The advice still stands; upfront payments of tens of thousands of pounds make you a complete hostage to fortune, not a valued customer. Just don't do it.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 375
Likes: 31
From: UK
I'm informed that those cadets who had made upfront payments to BCFT were reimbursed ahead of the school's closure, further underlining its reputation of integrity. I feel especially sorry for the instructors, ops staff and management, given there is no other commercial ATO in the area, meaning they'll have to relocate or resign themselves to lengthy commutes if they want to remain in the industry. However, they have also been treated honourably, I'm told, with severence packages provided. It's a sad indictment of the industry (and modern business practice in general) that BCFT's conduct appears to be an exception rather than the rule.
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 1
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From: Bournemouth
I have lost my deposit toward training. No attempt to pay it back as yet and I have been unable to contact anyone.
I was on the phone with the school just days before as they took my deposit.
Very upset as this is a huge setback for me.
It worries me that other UK CAA schools may close and this makes the modular route, for those of us who cannot afford or do not wish to go down the route of L3 seem very risky.
I was on the phone with the school just days before as they took my deposit.
Very upset as this is a huge setback for me.
It worries me that other UK CAA schools may close and this makes the modular route, for those of us who cannot afford or do not wish to go down the route of L3 seem very risky.
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 587
Likes: 60
From: FLSomething
I have lost my deposit toward training. No attempt to pay it back as yet and I have been unable to contact anyone.
I was on the phone with the school just days before as they took my deposit.
Very upset as this is a huge setback for me.
It worries me that other UK CAA schools may close and this makes the modular route, for those of us who cannot afford or do not wish to go down the route of L3 seem very risky.
I was on the phone with the school just days before as they took my deposit.
Very upset as this is a huge setback for me.
It worries me that other UK CAA schools may close and this makes the modular route, for those of us who cannot afford or do not wish to go down the route of L3 seem very risky.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Neither Here Nor There
I cannot understand why anyone would pay a retainer of anything more than a few hundred pounds, if that retainer is for nothing other than admin costs and a few other bits and pieces which collectively add up to no more than a few hundred pounds. Retainers running into the thousands are just wrong!! DO NOT DO IT.
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 81
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From: Palm Beach
There must be a balance here. Whilst no-one should ever pay huge upfront amounts, any business (especially a flight training business) has to plan ahead for aircraft, staff and instructor resources to be in place to be able to provide the training on time. I'm sure there are plenty of instances where students cancel their course last minute leaving the school in a difficult situation, so it works both ways. A few hundred pounds/dollars non-returnable deposit will not be a deterrent to anyone cancelling and some smaller modular schools could suffer serious financial consequences if they were ready for an intake of say half a dozen students in a month, to suddenly be left with half that number.
$5,000-10,000 is not an unreasonable deposit against a $50,000-$100,000 course (10%) so the school can plan ahead and get ready. My advice however, is make an arrangement with the school to place the deposit in an "Escrow' account whereby it can only be drawn down when training starts, likewise, the student cannot back out either without forfeiting. Such contractual banking arrangements can be easily made for usually a 5% fee from what I understand. Of course, with such an arrangement, the school could agree a refund or a delayed training date if the student could justify some serious life event which stops them from honoring the part of the contract, any good school would certainly do this.
SJ
$5,000-10,000 is not an unreasonable deposit against a $50,000-$100,000 course (10%) so the school can plan ahead and get ready. My advice however, is make an arrangement with the school to place the deposit in an "Escrow' account whereby it can only be drawn down when training starts, likewise, the student cannot back out either without forfeiting. Such contractual banking arrangements can be easily made for usually a 5% fee from what I understand. Of course, with such an arrangement, the school could agree a refund or a delayed training date if the student could justify some serious life event which stops them from honoring the part of the contract, any good school would certainly do this.
SJ