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What happens to the plane

Old 6th Aug 2022, 17:26
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What happens to the plane

If only the rudder was used to steer without alierons?

An animation would certainly help.
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 18:01
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 18:23
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The secondary effect of yaw is roll, so if you turn with the rudder the advancing wing in the turn creates more lift than the other one. so it rolls... does make sense to you?
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 18:57
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Its an excercise that I do with all of my students.
Control the airplane with rudder only or rudder and trim.
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 05:46
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I have some very old books about aviation, one dates back to 1911.

In the very early days, apparently it was normal to fly turns using rudder only. Banked turns were considered to be “stunts”.
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 05:56
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Originally Posted by Fargo Boyle View Post
So it just turns 360 in the same spot?
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 07:55
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One of my instructors would demonstrate directional control by just opening both doors of the Cessna 152 in flight and hand extending them airbrake style. It seemed to work.
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 08:58
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Originally Posted by Less Hair View Post
One of my instructors would demonstrate directional control by just opening both doors of the Cessna 152 in flight and hand extending them airbrake style. It seemed to work.
Reminds me of the 'full opposite door' technique for spin recovery. Never tried it myself.

An aircraft on which I have many hours, does not show secondary roll effect of rudder. It just carries on a bit sideways. Demonstrated it a few times to the surprise of a few instructors. It is an aerobatic type with symmetrical wings but I have never managed to figure out why it is so.

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Old 7th Aug 2022, 10:19
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What surprise me is the number of people who thought about, and then actually did, opening a door of an airplane in flight. I would never have had the guts...
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 12:53
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Never tried to do a full roll in a real airplane with rudder only, (other than doing snap rolls, but the whole “full opposite aileron” thing negates the experiment) but I can tell you that it works just fine on RC models with only rudder and elevator controls.
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 13:45
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Originally Posted by iggy View Post
What surprise me is the number of people who thought about, and then actually did, opening a door of an airplane in flight. I would never have had the guts...
Fly a C152 or a Piper Arrow and you'll experience a lot of doors opening, planned or not!
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 16:38
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Originally Posted by tcasdescend View Post
So it just turns 360 in the same spot?
No.....the aircraft continues to progress across the ground as it turns.. exactly what happens in roll will depend on the aircraft ( ea200s comment).

When I used to do basic instructing demo-ing this was part of the students second lesson, cunningly enough called "Effect of Controls"

It wasn't that unusual, certainly in the olden days, as 421dog mentions, to find some radio control models had no functioning ailerons or no ailerons at all..so you steered them around the sky using the rudder.

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Old 7th Aug 2022, 18:07
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Some of Jurca's aircraft have negative yaw roll coupling - press right leg, and it rolls left because of very little dihedral.
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 01:55
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
No.....the aircraft continues to progress across the ground as it turns.. exactly what happens in roll will depend on the aircraft ( ea200s comment).

When I used to do basic instructing demo-ing this was part of the students second lesson, cunningly enough called "Effect of Controls"

It wasn't that unusual, certainly in the olden days, as 421dog mentions, to find some radio control models had no functioning ailerons or no ailerons at all..so you steered them around the sky using the rudder.
That is funny. The textbook says rudder and alierons have to be pressed at the same time
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Old 8th Aug 2022, 03:18
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
No.....the aircraft continues to progress across the ground as it turns.. exactly what happens in roll will depend on the aircraft ( ea200s comment).

When I used to do basic instructing demo-ing this was part of the students second lesson, cunningly enough called "Effect of Controls"

It wasn't that unusual, certainly in the olden days, as 421dog mentions, to find some radio control models had no functioning ailerons or no ailerons at all..so you steered them around the sky using the rudder.
IS it due to left turning effect?
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