FTE Jerez Feedback?
This whole thread is extracting the urine frankly.
Ground instructor
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Having worked for L3 and CAE (Before it was called that) I personally wouldn't go to either. No one's mentioned the fact that a lot of L3-trained pilots were actually trained by Leading Edge at Oxford, who do Integrated, Modular and Dual Licence. Almost the whole of the L3 Groundschool team moved to Leading Edge from Coventry 3 years ago. As for CAE, they're still living off the name they had as Oxford Aviation training 25 years ago (when I was there). As far as I know, Leading Edge, BGS, FTE and Skyborne are all okay, but you need to visit and if you fancy a place but don't want to pay more in skills testing, say so and see what happens. Good luck.
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Having worked for L3 and CAE (Before it was called that) I personally wouldn't go to either. No one's mentioned the fact that a lot of L3-trained pilots were actually trained by Leading Edge at Oxford, who do Integrated, Modular and Dual Licence. Almost the whole of the L3 Groundschool team moved to Leading Edge from Coventry 3 years ago. As for CAE, they're still living off the name they had as Oxford Aviation training 25 years ago (when I was there). As far as I know, Leading Edge, BGS, FTE and Skyborne are all okay, but you need to visit and if you fancy a place but don't want to pay more in skills testing, say so and see what happens. Good luck.
For anyone looking at CAE and who need the figures - they are contracted to supply 200 MPLs per year, and if ezy want to hire any more the next 150 have to come from CAE's white tails. Anything beyond that they can look to other ATPLs.
Ezy's press release earlier this year said they want to hire 'over 1000 pilots' in the next 5 years; so assuming the MPL programme is filled to capacity and that ezy's growth target is not substantially beyond the 1000 mark, their recruitment is probably going to be saturated by the MPLs for the next 5 years or so (longer if their growth plateaus and/or they freeze hiring, again) - their white tail request this year was about 400 according to the advisor I was speaking to (of which the first 150 came from CAE), which meant of course they tried to say to me that a TR and RHS job with ezy when I graduate their ATPL was a shoo-in; but by my reckoning the MPLs + 400 white tails this year accounts for their losses over covid and white tail recruitment will be nigh on 0 if I graduated with them at the end of 2024. Of course if anyone has figures to the contrary, feel free to chip in.
FTE have filed the paperwork for approval as a UKCAA ATPL training centre beyond the end of this year, but the CAA are being a little slow allegedly and should get back to them by the end of November.
In any case, I'm going through the BACF application process of present so my offer/rejection should come through around the same time that we figure out whether FTE have been approved by the UKCAA (I assume they will be), at which point I can go with them or look at visiting/applying to Skyborne who I have also been reading good things about of late.
With Wizz quoting what is it like 4,500 pilots over the next 8 years, I dare say that they're a reasonable bet regardless of ATO: I know they're known as being a sub-optimal employer; but exposure to the NHS means my bar for what consistutes a decent employer is pretty low, and I reckon getting on the career ladder is more important than starting with a top-notch airline.
de minimus non curat lex
What all prospective junior birdmen must bear in mind is that the industry still has lots of snake oil salesmen whose sole mission to tempt the unwary & naïve customers to sign on the line & part with their money.
Memories appear to be very short as to the treatment of L3 customers…
The standard advice remains:
1. Visit the ATOs & inspect the equipment
2. Speak with their customers out of earshot of staff/management. Speak with friends/colleagues etc who were students at the establishment. Would they recommend the ATO
3. If substantial up front payments are required and/or substantial discounts offered for doing so, run a mile
4. Obtain your Class one medical before signing any contract
5. As a whitetail expect to suck the hind tit. Airline students/tagged will always get priority.
6. Get the contract reviewed by a lawyer and ask for safeguards written into it. If the ATO decline to alter their ‘standard contract’, you aren’t that special. CAVEAT EMPTOR
Fundamental point to remember: ATOs are in business to make money & acceptable profit for the shareholders.
Memories appear to be very short as to the treatment of L3 customers…
The standard advice remains:
1. Visit the ATOs & inspect the equipment
2. Speak with their customers out of earshot of staff/management. Speak with friends/colleagues etc who were students at the establishment. Would they recommend the ATO
3. If substantial up front payments are required and/or substantial discounts offered for doing so, run a mile
4. Obtain your Class one medical before signing any contract
5. As a whitetail expect to suck the hind tit. Airline students/tagged will always get priority.
6. Get the contract reviewed by a lawyer and ask for safeguards written into it. If the ATO decline to alter their ‘standard contract’, you aren’t that special. CAVEAT EMPTOR
Fundamental point to remember: ATOs are in business to make money & acceptable profit for the shareholders.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Very wise words Parkfell. Between you, Alex Whittingham, and a few others, genuine VoRs. 
However, as we all know, if someone wants to spend a fortune on a gamble, they won't be swayed by sensible words...
However, as we all know, if someone wants to spend a fortune on a gamble, they won't be swayed by sensible words...
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I was on the modular route and have taken the decision (unpopular I know) to switch to the easyJet MPL with CAE because:
i. it's more expensive but actually not by that much compared to (for example) modular @£50k plus Ryanair TR @£30k which is the most obvious route in for modular students at the moment. The MPL was £78k excl. accommodation with CAE (they charge in EUR and exchange rate will have changed that for the worse but luckily my savings aren't in pounds).
ii. Starting salary is better at EZY and goes up quite quickly. Looking at the lifetime return on investment, getting on a rising salary scale quickly is worth a lot of money across a whole career and will make up for the slightly higher cost (if it even is more expensive) a few times over. Plus EZY seem to have a better reputation as an employer than Ryanair or Wizz, so it is conceivably somewhere to stay for a career.
The risks are well known and understood. My understanding is that everyone that remained on the EZY MPL during covid has now restarted the MPL training if they haven't already finished and been employed by EZY. Obviously a horrible couple of years but they will all have got there in the end.
Is it correct that the really unlucky ones were those that switched out of the MPL onto the ATPL at great cost and now are not being employed by EZY?
i. it's more expensive but actually not by that much compared to (for example) modular @£50k plus Ryanair TR @£30k which is the most obvious route in for modular students at the moment. The MPL was £78k excl. accommodation with CAE (they charge in EUR and exchange rate will have changed that for the worse but luckily my savings aren't in pounds).
ii. Starting salary is better at EZY and goes up quite quickly. Looking at the lifetime return on investment, getting on a rising salary scale quickly is worth a lot of money across a whole career and will make up for the slightly higher cost (if it even is more expensive) a few times over. Plus EZY seem to have a better reputation as an employer than Ryanair or Wizz, so it is conceivably somewhere to stay for a career.
The risks are well known and understood. My understanding is that everyone that remained on the EZY MPL during covid has now restarted the MPL training if they haven't already finished and been employed by EZY. Obviously a horrible couple of years but they will all have got there in the end.
Is it correct that the really unlucky ones were those that switched out of the MPL onto the ATPL at great cost and now are not being employed by EZY?
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FTE have filed the paperwork for approval as a UKCAA ATPL training centre beyond the end of this year
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Hmmm, well it is possible. Maybe the CAE sim contract with the recruiting tie-in was only for Easyjet UK. My sources say that even for that it can be broken by Easy if CAE can't / don't supply sufficient quantity or quality of cadets. It has happened in the past, I seem to recall that Oxford/CAE once lost an exclusive Easy recruiting deal on the basis of poor quality.
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I was on the modular route and have taken the decision (unpopular I know) to switch to the easyJet MPL with CAE because:
i. it's more expensive but actually not by that much compared to (for example) modular @£50k plus Ryanair TR @£30k which is the most obvious route in for modular students at the moment. The MPL was £78k excl. accommodation with CAE (they charge in EUR and exchange rate will have changed that for the worse but luckily my savings aren't in pounds).
ii. Starting salary is better at EZY and goes up quite quickly. Looking at the lifetime return on investment, getting on a rising salary scale quickly is worth a lot of money across a whole career and will make up for the slightly higher cost (if it even is more expensive) a few times over. Plus EZY seem to have a better reputation as an employer than Ryanair or Wizz, so it is conceivably somewhere to stay for a career.
The risks are well known and understood. My understanding is that everyone that remained on the EZY MPL during covid has now restarted the MPL training if they haven't already finished and been employed by EZY. Obviously a horrible couple of years but they will all have got there in the end.
Is it correct that the really unlucky ones were those that switched out of the MPL onto the ATPL at great cost and now are not being employed by EZY?
i. it's more expensive but actually not by that much compared to (for example) modular @£50k plus Ryanair TR @£30k which is the most obvious route in for modular students at the moment. The MPL was £78k excl. accommodation with CAE (they charge in EUR and exchange rate will have changed that for the worse but luckily my savings aren't in pounds).
ii. Starting salary is better at EZY and goes up quite quickly. Looking at the lifetime return on investment, getting on a rising salary scale quickly is worth a lot of money across a whole career and will make up for the slightly higher cost (if it even is more expensive) a few times over. Plus EZY seem to have a better reputation as an employer than Ryanair or Wizz, so it is conceivably somewhere to stay for a career.
The risks are well known and understood. My understanding is that everyone that remained on the EZY MPL during covid has now restarted the MPL training if they haven't already finished and been employed by EZY. Obviously a horrible couple of years but they will all have got there in the end.
Is it correct that the really unlucky ones were those that switched out of the MPL onto the ATPL at great cost and now are not being employed by EZY?
de minimus non curat lex
There is a fundamental requirement that the trainees demonstrate that they are competent at landings in the simulator before trying it for real.
The AAIB report A320 G-DHJZ. 5 July 2007 makes interesting bedtime reading for junior birdmen, especially the paragraphs with the AAIB playing “Bloggs” v. TRE attempting to save the day.
The AAIB monthly reports are what discerning juniors should subscribe to.
Last edited by parkfell; 21st Oct 2022 at 09:36.
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FTE Jerez
Hi all.
Has anyone had any recent experience with FTE? Also, has anyone had any communication with FTE regarding UKCAA training?
Looking as an option for advanced stage of Flight Training post ATPL theory.
Has anyone had any recent experience with FTE? Also, has anyone had any communication with FTE regarding UKCAA training?
Looking as an option for advanced stage of Flight Training post ATPL theory.