Best IFR planning software for pilot students

[Genghis the Engineer]

Maybe I'm a luddite, but I value basic skills. I had a chap I was instructing a while ago, a fairly experienced PPL, navigating using Skydemon on an iPad - and 10 miles from his usual home airfield, the battery went flat. He was incapable of working out where he was, and declared himself lost. He then got so stressed, even after I pointed out how to get back to the overhead of his normal club airfield, that he lost control of the aircraft in the overhead requiring me to take control before he spiral dived the pair of us into the middle of the circuit.

Not me, but I was around a training airfield in the USA a couple of years ago where somebody failed their IR because they were flying with an iPad, it overheated in the Florida sun and shut down, and he had no paper backup from which he could complete the flight. Was me, a few years ago I picked an aeroplane up from Madrid to fly back to the UK for a flying school, and discovered that the old owner had been a bit untruthful about the condition of the nav kit, and the power socket didn't work so I couldn't run my portable Garmin for more than about half of every leg: I flew the length of Europe safely on basic instruments, a mode A transponder, paper charts and a PLOG.

I use these gadgets myself, and they're great. I do my flight planning on Skydemon as often as not, and I'm used to flying with various Garmin kit in the air. But I am very very nervous of ever allowing my fundamental skills to degrade, or that of anybody I'm responsible for. And I'm guessing that you have less than 100hrs, you're a complete beginner - yes, use these tools and be good with them, but concentrate in the short term on basic skills as well. Running a couple of simple nav trips on a paper PLOG is not expertise, it's basic exposure.

[math341c]

I understand what you’re trying to say. But I think that I have not made myself clear. Now when using Sky Demon. I only use it for planning. I do not use the app in flight or flying after my iPad. When I have made a flight plan in SKYDEMON I use the briefing pack option, to generate all in one plan that t have made on a page or two. I take a screenshot of it and navigate after just how it would be on paper. I write the times on the screenshot and calculate the next waypoints time in my head. And I want to do something similar in IFR.

[Genghis the Engineer]

That seems fair enough, and no you weren't entirely clear, but it's fine.

Have a look at Rocketroute.

[math341c]

Thanks for your recommendation. And no, of course, I do not use it in the flight as mentioned. We are also, not allowed to use any software on iPad or phone to navigate, we may only use the equipment in the aircraft. Software like Sky Demon are only allowed for planning.

And when reading the example with the student you had, I completely agree with what you say. I would never fly like that. Even if my battery went flat, I have a mini handbook (physical) with me, that can be in the side pockets, which gets renewed every year and contains all airports in Denmark, frequencies, and most important information, and I also have a VFR map with me.

So a flat battery won't be a problem for me. And in VFR you must have visual contact, so even if all your navigation instruments fail, you should be able to navigate visually with your VFR map.

[hum]

Try EuroFpl

https://www.eurofpl.eu/

inexpensive, you can get a sim version if not using for actual filing. Interface Takes a little Getting used to, but very powerful system with lots of features.

[math341c]

Thanks, @Hum for your ideas I will take a look at them also.

So guys, you who recommended ForeFlight, I looked at the Basic subscription yesterday. I Saw that you can also buy additional Jeppesen IFR charts? It cost almost 347 dollars extra per year just for northern europe, which is pretty expensive. But do I need them for the school flight? Does the Basic edition without additional options have all the charts I need?

[Field Required]

You dont need to pay for the Jepp subscription as no doubt the school you attend will have them. Foreflight charts tab allows you to access to a free set of charts in any case. When you plan and pack your flight it will fetch the required charts for you.

[math341c]

Good to hear, thank you very much for the help.

[Field Required]

No probs, it also gives you a preflight briefing you can print out or just read through which covers WX, Notams, PLOG etc. Just dont forget to properly check the NOTAMs when flying IFR. Many gotchas there.

[GKLondon]

Your not old enough 😄

Originally Posted by Contact Approach

I’ve not once manually plotted an IFR route in all my life. You just create it using whatever you like, file the plan and then load it in the fms/gps. Of course during the IR course you’ll fly raw data but that doesn’t change your plan.

I used to have 12kg+ of charts in my flight case, and before a flight spread enroute charts out over the dining table with a highlighter in hand to do the route.

[45989]

Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer

For somebody developing their skills?

Paper chart, PLOG, whizz-wheel. For both VFR and IFR.

Use the computer to source met and NOTAMs, if necessary for downloading approach plates, then leave it alone. You need to learn the basic principles as well as possible, not learn how to use software to make your life easier - that comes later.

If you really must, have plates and a chart in flight on a tablet on something like Rocketroute. And have them on paper as well, and make damned sure that EVERYTHING you do is on paper until you have passed your CPL and IR.

Genghis.... Nail on the head. Magenta line rears it's ugly head again. Basics? Who needs such trivia? Apple or Google will sort it. Till the Merde arrives..........

[modular atpl]

looks good, I have to try one

[Brian Pern]

Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer

Banana Joe

Flight schools need to inject solid basic skills first. The fact is that you can still function without the EFB, because you know how. And also when presented with a totally different system, you will have the advantage of that fundamental knowledge in learning your way into the new system. The pilot who has *only* done things using the latest software interface, may be at something of a disadvantage.

Also, not everybody is an airline pilot.

This. if you only ever learn how to push buttons, then you really are a Child of the Magenta Line. The old skills are disappearing. What would you do if you had a FMC Failure and had to rely on basic skills? You know flying to and from a Nav aid, yep even airliners sometimes fail, they certainly do when I am examining in the sim, often to the surprise of the kids being examined.

[Brian Pern]

Originally Posted by math341c

Thank you for the help and clarification it give sense now. I do also not see the sense making it on paper. It is just waste of paper. And about learning; I can learn the same things doing it in a software. I need to know what all the symbols on the charts know etc, I have a book for that that explains it all. I just wanted a software where I have all in one for planning. It seems that ForeFLight is the good option.

I will take a look at ForeFlight, but when I see their basic subscription it also says that it covers VFR, so I do need need SKYDEMON subscription anymore? ForeFlight is covers the VFR features?

Sadly you don't seem to have much sense at all. I cannot for the life of me understand why you would not want to know how to do things on paper. You may one day get the chance of some interesting flying, ferry, airtest etc other than A to B, I can assure you the normal stuff will get boring.
During the covid shutdown, I and a old friend of mine, he is a TRI with a rather large 737 operator head office in Dublin did some ferry flights to the middle east and beyond on older 73's. I spent several days with him, getting him up to speed on planning, ploting etc all on paper, even though I have Jepp on ipads, because if things go wrong, you are on your own. He was astounded, he had never learnt these basic skills and felt humbled by this old lag. He is now using some of the old ways to teach airmanship to the FO's at his base.
You want to be a Professional Pilot, you should know how to fly, not just button press. What would you do if your iPad went off over the Sahara?

[lederhosen]

As a retired airline pilot I was amazed when I started IFR private flying again. There are some really impressive computer tools now available most of which have been referred to above. One point I would emphasize from real world experience. Where I fly at least, the preferred route system makes doing IFR planning by hand a non starter. Autorouter does a great job generating flight plans and briefing packs efficiently and at nil cost, a great system!

[Contact Approach]

I can vouch for what lederhosen says. I’ve flown a fair bit IFR so far in my career and the software keeps things simple and effective. Use skyvector or something else if necessary to see how difficult to plan an IFR trip across Europe can be particularly for performance limited GA aircraft.