Part time Job and Distance learning or Full Time
Thread Starter
Part time Job and Distance learning or Full Time
I am currently deciding to start the ATPLs and wanted some advice from people who "have been there, done it and got the T Shirt"
I am looking at either one of the following options
1. Cutting back the hours i work to part-time and studying distance learning with BGS, working in themorning, studying in the afternoons & evenings.. .+ points = No extra rent. .- points + Self study, problems, home environment etc,
2. Stay on the waiting list until September for Guildhall University in London and do a Full time course fopr 6 months.. .+ points = taught everything in lessons. .- points = Paying out for rent in the most expensive capital in Europe
. .Not only is finance very important, but i want to do the best. Do companies employing CPL/IR graduates look more favourably at full-timers than the distance learners, or (as in an ideal world) are both viewed the same.
I know the market is not a friendly place at present, so 1 year of self study and then the flying training might be the best way, but i do not want to miss the boat next year when recruitment (hopefully) picks up again
I would really appreciate any views from people who have done this.
[ 14 February 2002: Message edited by: spitfire747 ]</p>
I am looking at either one of the following options
1. Cutting back the hours i work to part-time and studying distance learning with BGS, working in themorning, studying in the afternoons & evenings.. .+ points = No extra rent. .- points + Self study, problems, home environment etc,
2. Stay on the waiting list until September for Guildhall University in London and do a Full time course fopr 6 months.. .+ points = taught everything in lessons. .- points = Paying out for rent in the most expensive capital in Europe
. .Not only is finance very important, but i want to do the best. Do companies employing CPL/IR graduates look more favourably at full-timers than the distance learners, or (as in an ideal world) are both viewed the same.
I know the market is not a friendly place at present, so 1 year of self study and then the flying training might be the best way, but i do not want to miss the boat next year when recruitment (hopefully) picks up again
I would really appreciate any views from people who have done this.
[ 14 February 2002: Message edited by: spitfire747 ]</p>
How you study is irrelevant. Once you have the bit of paper that shows you've passed all 14 exams neither you nor potential employers will care. ATPL passes do not show where you studied. But by self-study you are actually showing that you have intellectual ability, commitment and self-discipline and that you don't need to be led by the nose.
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As far as I know, there are no companies employing CPL/IR graduates at the moment (if anyone knows otherwise, please let us know)! It is unlikely that any Wannabe would secure commercial employment without an ATPL, and you have to accept that employment for any inexperienced pilot at the moment is bloody hard to come by - just look back through the various relevant threads of the lst six months.. .For that reason, I would recommend the distance learning option if money is tight, followed by a modular progression to ATPL, and keep whatever employment you have. You are likely to be waiting a long, penniless time for a flying job...
Thread Starter
Scroggs
Thanks for your reply, i may have made my post unclear. I have been following posts and news for the past years and realise that the chance of a fresh CPL/IR graduate has a better chance of going to the moon than get a flying job at present, I am, like all other wannabes hoping the situation to hit the low point soon and then start its uphill part of the curve again.
My point was that WHEN they do start taking low hour, low experience grads again, would they be likely to look at distance learners differently (inferiorly) to full time people who studied at somewhere like ATA or Guildhall (We are tallking modular not integrated, as i cannot afford integrated)
Thanks again for your advice. .Spitfire
Thanks for your reply, i may have made my post unclear. I have been following posts and news for the past years and realise that the chance of a fresh CPL/IR graduate has a better chance of going to the moon than get a flying job at present, I am, like all other wannabes hoping the situation to hit the low point soon and then start its uphill part of the curve again.
My point was that WHEN they do start taking low hour, low experience grads again, would they be likely to look at distance learners differently (inferiorly) to full time people who studied at somewhere like ATA or Guildhall (We are tallking modular not integrated, as i cannot afford integrated)
Thanks again for your advice. .Spitfire
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When (IF!) you get to interview - assuming you decide on distance learning - one argument you could advance is that you have shown greater determination in independently studying that those who turn up 9-5, 5 days a week and have all the information spoon fed to them.
If distance learning is inferior (and I certainly don't agree it is), you could argue that in fact if you passed all 14 exams first time, that that points towards having a superior intellectual capacity for doing so!
Incidentally, I'd swap a superior intellectual capacity for a head for mindless facts and figures to pass ATPLs any day. The sort of people who are great at pub quiz machines would be ideally suited. It's more quantity that quality of thought that counts here I'm afraid. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
[ 15 February 2002: Message edited by: KillKenny ]</p>
If distance learning is inferior (and I certainly don't agree it is), you could argue that in fact if you passed all 14 exams first time, that that points towards having a superior intellectual capacity for doing so!
Incidentally, I'd swap a superior intellectual capacity for a head for mindless facts and figures to pass ATPLs any day. The sort of people who are great at pub quiz machines would be ideally suited. It's more quantity that quality of thought that counts here I'm afraid. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
[ 15 February 2002: Message edited by: KillKenny ]</p>
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Spitfire747 I am pleased to see you are thinking carefully about your options, more should follow your lead regarding plus & minus.
Any distance learning requires strong self-discipline, create yourself a timetable and stick to it. This is were people become unstuck.. .Make sure your provider has good support when you need it.
Another element to your equation should be passing the exams. It's no good saving money on course costs then have to resit exams numerous times, which is both a waste of money and MIGHT WELL make a difference to future employment chances.
A couple advantages to a full time course is obviously guided instruction but also in my experience students tend to help each other out.
Just for the record when I did my CAA ATPL I went for a 6 week full-time course with no regrets and 95% average first time pass mark.
Best of luck with your decision, not an easy shout.
Any distance learning requires strong self-discipline, create yourself a timetable and stick to it. This is were people become unstuck.. .Make sure your provider has good support when you need it.
Another element to your equation should be passing the exams. It's no good saving money on course costs then have to resit exams numerous times, which is both a waste of money and MIGHT WELL make a difference to future employment chances.
A couple advantages to a full time course is obviously guided instruction but also in my experience students tend to help each other out.
Just for the record when I did my CAA ATPL I went for a 6 week full-time course with no regrets and 95% average first time pass mark.
Best of luck with your decision, not an easy shout.
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KillKenny,
I do hope you know Spitfie747, and are just joking because you sound like a very arrogant and unlikely candidate for the RHS!
Anyway, SpitFire, well done on thinking this one through! I think that if you can cope with your job and study ATPL, it will be to your credit certainly not your detrement.
I studied very hard for my ATPL's on a full time course which took about 7 months from start to having passed them all. Don't be under the false impression however that a full time course is just a spoonfed 9-5, because it's not, people who have taken this opinion in the past and who I'm sure will in the future, have and will fail.
It's not so much in the classroom where you learn, its in your own time when it starts to sink in. This time for me (which I'm sure will be different for some people) involved the 9-5 classroom, then 7-10 EVERY night mon-fri plus a few hours on a saturday. Sunday was hangover day.
It cost me (just ATPL ground school) around 12K incl everything. If you add on loss of earnings it's going to be around the 20K mark I guess. So if you can do it Distance Learning:. .a. You'll save shed loads of cash for the CPL/IR. .b. You'll be ready when the industry (hopefully) can start looking low houred pilots again.. .c. You won't in any way be discriminated against for doing it Distance Learning.. .d. You won't have the consist thought of how much it's costing when you're sitting in class not earning.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
I do hope you know Spitfie747, and are just joking because you sound like a very arrogant and unlikely candidate for the RHS!
Anyway, SpitFire, well done on thinking this one through! I think that if you can cope with your job and study ATPL, it will be to your credit certainly not your detrement.
I studied very hard for my ATPL's on a full time course which took about 7 months from start to having passed them all. Don't be under the false impression however that a full time course is just a spoonfed 9-5, because it's not, people who have taken this opinion in the past and who I'm sure will in the future, have and will fail.
It's not so much in the classroom where you learn, its in your own time when it starts to sink in. This time for me (which I'm sure will be different for some people) involved the 9-5 classroom, then 7-10 EVERY night mon-fri plus a few hours on a saturday. Sunday was hangover day.
It cost me (just ATPL ground school) around 12K incl everything. If you add on loss of earnings it's going to be around the 20K mark I guess. So if you can do it Distance Learning:. .a. You'll save shed loads of cash for the CPL/IR. .b. You'll be ready when the industry (hopefully) can start looking low houred pilots again.. .c. You won't in any way be discriminated against for doing it Distance Learning.. .d. You won't have the consist thought of how much it's costing when you're sitting in class not earning.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
Thread Starter
KillKenny - No offence taken, no really, just wait till i see you !
Morning Glory - Thanks for your advice, this is something i have been thinking about for along time, given the current state of the industry. I know (and looking forward) to all this extra study, after all it is not like being at school as most of the subjects i revised for and studied, I hated !!, aviation law, met, systems etc. i LOVE so much it will be anenjoyable 6-7months ..
I also realise the financial benefits of self study, but also realise from my school, college, uni days that self study and revision were not my hot spots and given the number of distractions at home - family, girlfriend, pets etc.. i am moving away from the self study idea,. .Hopefully if i can start the ATPLs at the end of this year then I can do the CPL/IR during the better weather in 2003, hopefully by then the industry will be in a state of re-growth.
To me airline flying is the cherry on the cake, paid flying is my dream!
Thanks for your advice all
[ 21 February 2002: Message edited by: spitfire747 ]</p>
Morning Glory - Thanks for your advice, this is something i have been thinking about for along time, given the current state of the industry. I know (and looking forward) to all this extra study, after all it is not like being at school as most of the subjects i revised for and studied, I hated !!, aviation law, met, systems etc. i LOVE so much it will be anenjoyable 6-7months ..
I also realise the financial benefits of self study, but also realise from my school, college, uni days that self study and revision were not my hot spots and given the number of distractions at home - family, girlfriend, pets etc.. i am moving away from the self study idea,. .Hopefully if i can start the ATPLs at the end of this year then I can do the CPL/IR during the better weather in 2003, hopefully by then the industry will be in a state of re-growth.
To me airline flying is the cherry on the cake, paid flying is my dream!
Thanks for your advice all
[ 21 February 2002: Message edited by: spitfire747 ]</p>
