8 Fails at the ATPL's
>> Raw data ILS? Bring it on...... <<
Something we can both totally agree on, paco.
>> but can’t fly : discuss <<
I like your argument, parkfell, and also totally agree with your summary regarding expertise in present day schools
I taught at Oxford Air Training School (now OAA) from 1970 to 1974. All of us then were from all branches of military aviation, 100+ instructors inc. 35 flying.
We encouraged studes to be good aircraft operators, to be ahead of the game, to be situationally aware and in control of both their aeroplane and their environment.
However we are now in the realms of thread creep and this won't solve the basic problem of poor examination content and on how many good future pilots we could be losing.
Something we can both totally agree on, paco.
>> but can’t fly : discuss <<
I like your argument, parkfell, and also totally agree with your summary regarding expertise in present day schools
I taught at Oxford Air Training School (now OAA) from 1970 to 1974. All of us then were from all branches of military aviation, 100+ instructors inc. 35 flying.
We encouraged studes to be good aircraft operators, to be ahead of the game, to be situationally aware and in control of both their aeroplane and their environment.
However we are now in the realms of thread creep and this won't solve the basic problem of poor examination content and on how many good future pilots we could be losing.
To make the point with regard to the type of inane question in present examination papers, perhaps I can refer you to the "Reverse thrust" thread in this forum.
>>> Question: Once the blocker doors are fully deployed, with an increase in rpm, which of the following statements would be incorrect ??
a. Forward thrust from the hot gases would increase.
b. Forward thrust from the hot gases would decrease.
c. Reverse thrust from the blocked air would increase.
d. TGT will increase.
I thought a. would be correct, as with blocker doors, the cold airstream only is reversed and not the hot air. So if you increase the RPM, then surely the forward thrust from the hot gases would increase in-line with an increase in turbine speed, although the overall net thrust would be in reverse due to the larger amount of cold air thrust from the fan? Or am I reading this incorrectly? The suggested correct answer is b. <<<
My immediate thoughts are "So what ?"
It's all so obvious when one is flying the aeroplane, whether fitted with reverser doors ( P&W JT8s) or cascades vanes (CFM56).
All I'm worried about at this stage is ingestion, compressor stall or asymmetric reverse !
>>> Question: Once the blocker doors are fully deployed, with an increase in rpm, which of the following statements would be incorrect ??
a. Forward thrust from the hot gases would increase.
b. Forward thrust from the hot gases would decrease.
c. Reverse thrust from the blocked air would increase.
d. TGT will increase.
I thought a. would be correct, as with blocker doors, the cold airstream only is reversed and not the hot air. So if you increase the RPM, then surely the forward thrust from the hot gases would increase in-line with an increase in turbine speed, although the overall net thrust would be in reverse due to the larger amount of cold air thrust from the fan? Or am I reading this incorrectly? The suggested correct answer is b. <<<
My immediate thoughts are "So what ?"
It's all so obvious when one is flying the aeroplane, whether fitted with reverser doors ( P&W JT8s) or cascades vanes (CFM56).
All I'm worried about at this stage is ingestion, compressor stall or asymmetric reverse !
Thanks, Alex.
Always had the greatest respect for your organisation.
Missed that. Knee jerk reaction. I stand corrected.
RTFQ !
Always had the greatest respect for your organisation.
Missed that. Knee jerk reaction. I stand corrected.
RTFQ !
Sleeve Wing, you say:
You then choose:
which is correct by your own analysis. The question asks you to choose an incorrect answer.
So if you increase the RPM, then surely the forward thrust from the hot gases would increase in-line with an increase in turbine speed
a. Forward thrust from the hot gases would increase.
I have a question.
How many aircrew would be able to sit and pass the ATPL exams they sat and past, say even 10 years ago?? Not very many I would wager. So with that in mind, how practical are these examinations (apart from Air Law) in the "real world"? I would be unlucky to get anywhere near a pass, if I resat the things now..
As for specific Type technical examinations, I firmly believe in an "open book" policy. Why you ask? It is more important to know where to find the information from the manuals than clutter our minds storing specific useless information. The odd limitation is important of course. KIS, Keep It Simple!!
As sleeve hinted at, do we need aviators or academics to fly a/c? I've been an aviator, not an academic. "You can teach a monkey to ride a bike but you'll never teach it to read road signs" was one of the comments from several instructors, at the ground school I attended, when a quite well known and a very good aviator finally passed at the third attempt!! .
How many aircrew would be able to sit and pass the ATPL exams they sat and past, say even 10 years ago?? Not very many I would wager. So with that in mind, how practical are these examinations (apart from Air Law) in the "real world"? I would be unlucky to get anywhere near a pass, if I resat the things now..
As for specific Type technical examinations, I firmly believe in an "open book" policy. Why you ask? It is more important to know where to find the information from the manuals than clutter our minds storing specific useless information. The odd limitation is important of course. KIS, Keep It Simple!!
As sleeve hinted at, do we need aviators or academics to fly a/c? I've been an aviator, not an academic. "You can teach a monkey to ride a bike but you'll never teach it to read road signs" was one of the comments from several instructors, at the ground school I attended, when a quite well known and a very good aviator finally passed at the third attempt!! .
de minimus non curat lex
I would add Meteorology to the list of essentials, especially the decodes.
The ATPL material was described to me once as high volume, low grade material. The GNAV is the one with the fewest facts, but does require a degree of understanding to pass it. And of course no plotting these days.
Many moons ago, before my professional pilot exams, I sat the CAA ATCO (no.54 course) exams. Navigation was an exam subject, including plotting with both air & ground plotting!
Provided you have sufficient grey material [5 GCSEs including English, Maths, Physics & 2 ‘A’ s] or [five Scottish NAT5 & 3/4 Highers] [or equivalent] and put in the TIME & EFFORT, then there is no reason why first time passes with good marks will not follow. A focused approach.
As for taking the exams again, you will be surprised how quickly it all comes flooding back....one day refresher per subject perhaps?
The ATPL material was described to me once as high volume, low grade material. The GNAV is the one with the fewest facts, but does require a degree of understanding to pass it. And of course no plotting these days.
Many moons ago, before my professional pilot exams, I sat the CAA ATCO (no.54 course) exams. Navigation was an exam subject, including plotting with both air & ground plotting!
Provided you have sufficient grey material [5 GCSEs including English, Maths, Physics & 2 ‘A’ s] or [five Scottish NAT5 & 3/4 Highers] [or equivalent] and put in the TIME & EFFORT, then there is no reason why first time passes with good marks will not follow. A focused approach.
As for taking the exams again, you will be surprised how quickly it all comes flooding back....one day refresher per subject perhaps?
>>> Sleeve Wing, you say : <<< (quote)
Not me, Winemaker !
This was all part of the comment from vw_nutter as the originator of the "Reverse Thrust" thread.
I didn't attempt to find a "correct" or "incorrect" answer to such an inane question.
My comment was the final three lines.
Not me, Winemaker !
This was all part of the comment from vw_nutter as the originator of the "Reverse Thrust" thread.
I didn't attempt to find a "correct" or "incorrect" answer to such an inane question.
My comment was the final three lines.
Last edited by Sleeve Wing; 14th Jan 2020 at 22:18. Reason: Missed a word out.
