Will BA recruit if there's a war in Iraq?
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Will BA recruit if there's a war in Iraq?
In terms of recruitment, what will happen if there is a war in Iraq? Does it depend on Britain's involvement, or will any war in that region mean downsizing, a continued recruitment ban and no hope for us wannabe Nigels in the foreseeable future? I understand it is very difficult to predict, but any views or opinions might help me shape my future plans. (I have about 8 months to run in my current occupation and am considering going the self-sponsored route).
Much appreciation for any replies.
Much appreciation for any replies.
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Dose the words;
"The only flying you'll be doing is a freight plane for of rubber dog s**ts out of Hong Kong"
Mean anything?
If it kicks off in the middle east we'll be lucky to get that.
Let along a nice job with a nice airline. See several posts by WWW warning same! and the fact that BA 's year on year pax is down 12.9% and an operating profit of only 158 m
"The only flying you'll be doing is a freight plane for of rubber dog s**ts out of Hong Kong"
Mean anything?
If it kicks off in the middle east we'll be lucky to get that.
Let along a nice job with a nice airline. See several posts by WWW warning same! and the fact that BA 's year on year pax is down 12.9% and an operating profit of only 158 m
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I don't think a war will help at all.
I am afraid that I have binned the article now, but Rod Eddington (BA chief exec) was saying last week that a war in Iraq would damage the fragile recovery and not just in that region of their business. It would decimate Trans Atlantic Traffic too.
Sorry, but I think you are clutching at straws. I think it will be a good while before BA cadets are paid for again.
Plus even before this down turn it was a very tough course to get on. You are pinning your hopes on a 1:100 chance anyhow my friend...............and that was before the long break in Cadet recruitment. I reckon it is 1:150 now.
I am afraid that I have binned the article now, but Rod Eddington (BA chief exec) was saying last week that a war in Iraq would damage the fragile recovery and not just in that region of their business. It would decimate Trans Atlantic Traffic too.
Sorry, but I think you are clutching at straws. I think it will be a good while before BA cadets are paid for again.
Plus even before this down turn it was a very tough course to get on. You are pinning your hopes on a 1:100 chance anyhow my friend...............and that was before the long break in Cadet recruitment. I reckon it is 1:150 now.
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I'm not puting all my eggs in one basket. I have backup plans and many other ideas if things don't start moving with the world's favourite. I still want to get onto the BA cadet scheme though, as it is undeniably the best out there, and there seem to be signs that the cadets waiting fir the jet orientation courses are about to be placed on them. All just rumours, but my hope is that they will open the ab init scheme again soon. Any other news/info on those cadets? Have they been given start dates yet?
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Sorry to add to the doom and gloom, but if it all kicks off in Iraq then there won't be any recruitment at BA (or anywhere else!) for a long, long time. They are in the process of shedding a large number of flight crew positions through "Future size and shape" most of which will come about through retirements and a freeze on recruitment. You only have to look at what happened during/after the gulf war and combine that with the current dismal situation to realise what the result on recruitment would be.
You are right in that BA's cadet program is a good (and cost effective!) way into commercial aviation but as you say don't put all your eggs in one basket, when i applied back in 1990 they had 40,000 applications for the 100 places. You do the maths. I was hired in 1998 by a leading Charter airline, having been a self improver. There is life outside BA and in recent times the gap in pay and conditions has narrowed considerably, so consider all the options. Timing is absolutely critical, i think now might be a good time to start training. I started in 1994 when there was very, very lttle recruitment going on, but by the time I finnished training things had picked up and i was in the right place at the right time and got lucky! But the window of recruitment never stays open for long! If things stay as they are (!) then in 2/3 years should catch the next up swing in the industry.
Best of luck! Go with the flow and be prepared to roll with the punches!
You are right in that BA's cadet program is a good (and cost effective!) way into commercial aviation but as you say don't put all your eggs in one basket, when i applied back in 1990 they had 40,000 applications for the 100 places. You do the maths. I was hired in 1998 by a leading Charter airline, having been a self improver. There is life outside BA and in recent times the gap in pay and conditions has narrowed considerably, so consider all the options. Timing is absolutely critical, i think now might be a good time to start training. I started in 1994 when there was very, very lttle recruitment going on, but by the time I finnished training things had picked up and i was in the right place at the right time and got lucky! But the window of recruitment never stays open for long! If things stay as they are (!) then in 2/3 years should catch the next up swing in the industry.
Best of luck! Go with the flow and be prepared to roll with the punches!
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No War In Iraq
Just back from a middle east slip and met some British Embassy senior types. They laughed when I asked about the forthcoming war in Iraq, just Mr Bush throwing his weight around. They confirmed my thoughts that the UK has done nothing in preparation, it is all bluff to try and get Iraq to toe the line, I do not think the Americans can afford it unless they can link it to Sept. 11.
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That's encouraging, grunt. I am thinking about the self-improver route. I have until April with my present job, and am hoping that the present situation picks up for recruitment. Otherwise it's a case of finding the money to do it myself. I suppose the Iraq situation is beyond our control, but it would completely screw the aviation industry right to the very roots.
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By the way, Speedbird 2496, is it true that you STILL haven't got JOC course start dates? I heard something yesterday (Sat 10th August) to the contrary? Maybe just a viscious rumour....
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...d-imagery2.htm
So why are they scrambling to build this massive new base?
Some kind of action is looking increasingly likley in my opinion. Any kind of action will have a negative effect on the business.
I am seeing definite signs of recovery post Sept 11th. I know of several people who have been taken back on, or who have been offered interviews or who have had firm dates for conversion courses.
Gulf WarII could scupper all of that.
WWW
So why are they scrambling to build this massive new base?
Some kind of action is looking increasingly likley in my opinion. Any kind of action will have a negative effect on the business.
I am seeing definite signs of recovery post Sept 11th. I know of several people who have been taken back on, or who have been offered interviews or who have had firm dates for conversion courses.
Gulf WarII could scupper all of that.
WWW
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If war does happen I suppose you could take your shiney CPL into the local RAF careers office and ask to become a mil pilot. They are short on pilots see.
Come to think of it - I'd have a pootle down there even if there wasn't a war on.
BM.
Come to think of it - I'd have a pootle down there even if there wasn't a war on.
BM.
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I don't believe that there will be large-scale US military activity in Iraq. I do believe that there will be an increase of the kind of military pressure that has been applied constantly since 1991, through aggressive patrolling and possible extension of the North and South no-fly zones, coupled with increased political pressure and economic incentives to re-establish the UN Arms Inspectorate's presence in Iraq.
There are a number of reasons why I think a US invaion of Iraq is unlikely. The overwhelmingly important one is that there will not be adequate international support. The US hasn't really made much effort to carry the world with it, in particular the Arab world, and I think they've underestimated the support they need. Saudi Arabia, their main ally in the region, is distinctly cool on the whole idea and, without them, it 's sunk. The US's 'scramble' to create new support bases in Qatar and elsewhere is a reflection of the reducing support they expect from Saudi. However, these bases are way too far from Iraq to replace the forward bases available in Saudi Arabia.
A credible invasion of Iraq would need the presence of 250,000 or more ground troops, on a wide front (or more than one), and 20 or more nearby airbases capable of sustained high-intensity operations day and night. With the only country likely to actively support the US being Kuwait, there isn't the real estate to support such activity. It would be like trying to invade UK from the Isle of Wight! And there are far from sufficient naval platforms to even make a dent in these numbers.
Lastly, although the US has been trying to wean itself off Arab oil (most recently shown by its attempts to divorce Nigeria from Opec), it still imports over 50% of its oil from the region. The US cannot afford to jeopardise that supply just yet.
So, I think that the current invective and rhetoric from Dubya is a fairly crude attempt to bully Iraq into co-operation. It will probably work, as I'm sure that behind the scenes the US is persuading Saddam that there is a credible threat against him, his family and his economic assets from both special forces and dissident factions within Iraq.
As for BA's cadet scheme, I'm increasingly persuaded that it will not reappear in the near future. I certainly wouldn't wait for it!
There are a number of reasons why I think a US invaion of Iraq is unlikely. The overwhelmingly important one is that there will not be adequate international support. The US hasn't really made much effort to carry the world with it, in particular the Arab world, and I think they've underestimated the support they need. Saudi Arabia, their main ally in the region, is distinctly cool on the whole idea and, without them, it 's sunk. The US's 'scramble' to create new support bases in Qatar and elsewhere is a reflection of the reducing support they expect from Saudi. However, these bases are way too far from Iraq to replace the forward bases available in Saudi Arabia.
A credible invasion of Iraq would need the presence of 250,000 or more ground troops, on a wide front (or more than one), and 20 or more nearby airbases capable of sustained high-intensity operations day and night. With the only country likely to actively support the US being Kuwait, there isn't the real estate to support such activity. It would be like trying to invade UK from the Isle of Wight! And there are far from sufficient naval platforms to even make a dent in these numbers.
Lastly, although the US has been trying to wean itself off Arab oil (most recently shown by its attempts to divorce Nigeria from Opec), it still imports over 50% of its oil from the region. The US cannot afford to jeopardise that supply just yet.
So, I think that the current invective and rhetoric from Dubya is a fairly crude attempt to bully Iraq into co-operation. It will probably work, as I'm sure that behind the scenes the US is persuading Saddam that there is a credible threat against him, his family and his economic assets from both special forces and dissident factions within Iraq.
As for BA's cadet scheme, I'm increasingly persuaded that it will not reappear in the near future. I certainly wouldn't wait for it!
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Scroggs
BA CEP scheme is possibly restarting next May . This has been passed down to the potential training providers .
However , as said , another crisis would likely put this on the back burner .
BA CEP scheme is possibly restarting next May . This has been passed down to the potential training providers .
However , as said , another crisis would likely put this on the back burner .
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I'll tell you what Al-Udeid is - a large money-spinner for US defence corporations and nothing more. What a surprise.
BA certainly need people soon, but I wouldn't be surprised if either BA changes dramatically anyway, or new entrants remain in CitiExpress for a long time before moving up as a permanent new route.
-400 pilots are needed more than most unfortunately, and that spells DEP rather than CEP.
BA certainly need people soon, but I wouldn't be surprised if either BA changes dramatically anyway, or new entrants remain in CitiExpress for a long time before moving up as a permanent new route.
-400 pilots are needed more than most unfortunately, and that spells DEP rather than CEP.
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I agree with Scroggs. I have not believed for some time there will be a war in the region as a result of the US. It also seems that certain factions within the US regime are starting to question the power that Donald Rumsfeld (however you spell it) has been wielding in Washington, especially after his outbursts last week.
No idea on re-starting the CEP. However, past history suggests that BA prefer the CEP route than the DEP route. Obviously good news for those wishing to apply for the 400 fleet with experience. Mind you, endless trips to deepest darkest Africa probably awaits potential recruits.
No idea on re-starting the CEP. However, past history suggests that BA prefer the CEP route than the DEP route. Obviously good news for those wishing to apply for the 400 fleet with experience. Mind you, endless trips to deepest darkest Africa probably awaits potential recruits.
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BA wont be recruiting any pilots soon, no matter how short we are, unless the company wide recruitment ban is lifted. The reasons for this are:
1) BA pilots are disliked throughout the company (thanks to management propaganda) and any attempt to recruit flight crew to an efficient but understaffed department will be met with howls of protest.
2) If flight crew are hired then all the other overstaffed but inefficient departments will demand more staff to make up for their inefficiencies.
3) If flight crew are hired Waterside will go on a massive recruitment spree as individual managers try to protect their positions by hiring more 'executives' and 'analysts' to work beneath them.
To correct the previous poster who said that we are losing many flight crew, we are only losing 400 over two years. That target will be more than met by natural wastage, yet less than a year after 911 we are critically short of Airbus Captains and 744 crew. We have now reached the stage on the Airbus where flights are being cancelled due to shortages of flight crew, but we can't hire until the Waterside beast is slain.
1) BA pilots are disliked throughout the company (thanks to management propaganda) and any attempt to recruit flight crew to an efficient but understaffed department will be met with howls of protest.
2) If flight crew are hired then all the other overstaffed but inefficient departments will demand more staff to make up for their inefficiencies.
3) If flight crew are hired Waterside will go on a massive recruitment spree as individual managers try to protect their positions by hiring more 'executives' and 'analysts' to work beneath them.
To correct the previous poster who said that we are losing many flight crew, we are only losing 400 over two years. That target will be more than met by natural wastage, yet less than a year after 911 we are critically short of Airbus Captains and 744 crew. We have now reached the stage on the Airbus where flights are being cancelled due to shortages of flight crew, but we can't hire until the Waterside beast is slain.
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You will not need to worry about the prospect of a long, drawn-out war. The USA will QUICKLY decimate Saddam's government with precision (avoiding collateral damage/civilian injuries as much as possible) and force a regime change. It is well known that most people in Iraq hate Saddam and loathe their living conditions and lowly status in the Arab world. Most Iraqi people, including the already pulverized Iraqi army (with long-term memories of precision missiles and napalm carpet-bombing runs) would favor a more-democratic rule and would not fight as hard as Saddam would like. Any war would be a matter of weeks - not months. And the US doesn't need anyone's direct help - not even the British (it will need Turkish airspace and Bahraini airfields, etc.). The US can do it alone - it is time for a regime change.
Therefore, I would not worry too much about a prolonged hiring freeze in the event of a war. It will be a turkey-shoot...
Cheers
Therefore, I would not worry too much about a prolonged hiring freeze in the event of a war. It will be a turkey-shoot...
Cheers
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You know, that could only be written by someone from the US who has been subjected to their media for the last 11 months. The trouble is, there's a whole nation that thinks like that. So it might just happen.
Lavdumperer, we sympathise with your nation's loss. We agree with your objective. But can't you concede that in this case, it's just possible that the rest of the world might be right in condemning your proposed method? Have you guys never heard of groupthink?
Lavdumperer, we sympathise with your nation's loss. We agree with your objective. But can't you concede that in this case, it's just possible that the rest of the world might be right in condemning your proposed method? Have you guys never heard of groupthink?