AFTA, Simtech, VA or any other school for APS MCC
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AFTA, Simtech, VA or any other school for APS MCC
Buon giorno
My last forum was closed and I even don't know why.
So I start a new one with a similar title but without that S.. name because they or people from them react weird.
I would like to give guidance and hints to those who want to do a APS MCC.
So in the game you have the schools in the title.
Would be good to have details for their APS programs
Thank you
My last forum was closed and I even don't know why.
So I start a new one with a similar title but without that S.. name because they or people from them react weird.
I would like to give guidance and hints to those who want to do a APS MCC.
So in the game you have the schools in the title.
Would be good to have details for their APS programs
Thank you
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And the recommendation is...
So what do you think? Is VA better than Simtech? I've read your last thread and highly appreciate some further info.
My friends recommend VA, but simtech looks professional and on their Facebook there is evidence for the success of their pilots.
My friends recommend VA, but simtech looks professional and on their Facebook there is evidence for the success of their pilots.
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APS costs
Wings alliance is offering the APS for 7500 GBP
I paid around 6400 Euro
VA is taking 6900 GBP
Pilots ATO takes 5500 Euro
What about Simtech and AFTA?
I paid around 6400 Euro
VA is taking 6900 GBP
Pilots ATO takes 5500 Euro
What about Simtech and AFTA?
de minimus non curat lex
Before you part with your hard earned cash, I would suggest that you visit the establishments on your shortlist.
A 30 minute "trial flight" in the simulator should invariably be part of the conducted tour.
Ask about how successful their customers have been in securing that all important first job. Personnal recommendations from trusted friends always goes a long way in the decision making process.
Besides Facebook, LinkedIn is another source of valuable research.
The bottom line is that you are the customer.........spend your money wisely
A 30 minute "trial flight" in the simulator should invariably be part of the conducted tour.
Ask about how successful their customers have been in securing that all important first job. Personnal recommendations from trusted friends always goes a long way in the decision making process.
Besides Facebook, LinkedIn is another source of valuable research.
The bottom line is that you are the customer.........spend your money wisely
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Very sorry about that error on our part if you didn't get a follow-up. Will send you a private message now, and please do contact us again.
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@travis.karl: On their website its written: £6,900 inc VAT (£5,750 ex VAT) so its 6.900 or 5.750 if you have a company related to flying. I believe it can also be deducted if you are not from UK just have an EU company and also written off from tax as a cost of getting the necessary ratings to perform your job.
@virtualaviation: May I ask if there is some kind of assessment or can I just join when I am done with my ratings at the flight school? I like your program best when looking at website information but I would like to ask if you have some contacts with Ryanair or planning to be officially approved like sky4u or AFTA ? Do you have any contact or students who got a job with other airlines for example: Wizz Air, LOT Polish Airlines, Enter Air, Sprint Air, Travel Service (those airlines got bases in Poland, maybe Easyjet will also have bases in Poland) ?
@virtualaviation: May I ask if there is some kind of assessment or can I just join when I am done with my ratings at the flight school? I like your program best when looking at website information but I would like to ask if you have some contacts with Ryanair or planning to be officially approved like sky4u or AFTA ? Do you have any contact or students who got a job with other airlines for example: Wizz Air, LOT Polish Airlines, Enter Air, Sprint Air, Travel Service (those airlines got bases in Poland, maybe Easyjet will also have bases in Poland) ?
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@travis.karl: On their website its written: £6,900 inc VAT (£5,750 ex VAT) so its 6.900 or 5.750 if you have a company related to flying. I believe it can also be deducted if you are not from UK just have an EU company and also written off from tax as a cost of getting the necessary ratings to perform your job.
@virtualaviation: May I ask if there is some kind of assessment or can I just join when I am done with my ratings at the flight school? I like your program best when looking at website information but I would like to ask if you have some contacts with Ryanair or planning to be officially approved like sky4u or AFTA ? Do you have any contact or students who got a job with other airlines for example: Wizz Air, LOT Polish Airlines, Enter Air, Sprint Air, Travel Service (those airlines got bases in Poland, maybe Easyjet will also have bases in Poland) ?
@virtualaviation: May I ask if there is some kind of assessment or can I just join when I am done with my ratings at the flight school? I like your program best when looking at website information but I would like to ask if you have some contacts with Ryanair or planning to be officially approved like sky4u or AFTA ? Do you have any contact or students who got a job with other airlines for example: Wizz Air, LOT Polish Airlines, Enter Air, Sprint Air, Travel Service (those airlines got bases in Poland, maybe Easyjet will also have bases in Poland) ?
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@travis.karl: On their website its written: £6,900 inc VAT (£5,750 ex VAT) so its 6.900 or 5.750 if you have a company related to flying. I believe it can also be deducted if you are not from UK just have an EU company and also written off from tax as a cost of getting the necessary ratings to perform your job.
@virtualaviation: May I ask if there is some kind of assessment or can I just join when I am done with my ratings at the flight school? I like your program best when looking at website information but I would like to ask if you have some contacts with Ryanair or planning to be officially approved like sky4u or AFTA ? Do you have any contact or students who got a job with other airlines for example: Wizz Air, LOT Polish Airlines, Enter Air, Sprint Air, Travel Service (those airlines got bases in Poland, maybe Easyjet will also have bases in Poland) ?
@virtualaviation: May I ask if there is some kind of assessment or can I just join when I am done with my ratings at the flight school? I like your program best when looking at website information but I would like to ask if you have some contacts with Ryanair or planning to be officially approved like sky4u or AFTA ? Do you have any contact or students who got a job with other airlines for example: Wizz Air, LOT Polish Airlines, Enter Air, Sprint Air, Travel Service (those airlines got bases in Poland, maybe Easyjet will also have bases in Poland) ?
APS students from Simtech and VA are taken by RYR too. So it's simply that they prefer APS students.
But still it's a lot of money that you need to pay for something that is normally not needed and covered by an airline. Too expensive. And no guarantee.
de minimus non curat lex
T.K
What you must remember is that the more time you spent in the simulator before your interview/sim ride, the greater chance you have of being successful. Equally important is the device you learn on. If you aspire to say Ryanair then clearly a B737-800 training device is the obvious choice. If however you set your sights on a turbo-prop, then the choice of device is not critical.
APS in essence means that the JOC element which historically was and remains unregulated, has now been approved and is part of the MCC course, now renamed APS.
The reputable provider offered a MCC/JOC course. With some minor modifications that is now an APS course.
Depending where you go, a current MCC/JOC course may well be the same standard and quality as the APS course.
I suspect the issue with Ryanair was that they had a number of candidates who simply had got overwhelmed on the sim ride, wasting both their time and that of the assessors. Hence their preference for those who have reached a certain defined standards prior to assessment.
Expensive it may be, but money well spent if you are successful. The cheaper the option, then potentially a greater risk of failure, and 'money down the drain'.
Training is an investment. There are no quick fixes. Think QUALITY every time.
What you must remember is that the more time you spent in the simulator before your interview/sim ride, the greater chance you have of being successful. Equally important is the device you learn on. If you aspire to say Ryanair then clearly a B737-800 training device is the obvious choice. If however you set your sights on a turbo-prop, then the choice of device is not critical.
APS in essence means that the JOC element which historically was and remains unregulated, has now been approved and is part of the MCC course, now renamed APS.
The reputable provider offered a MCC/JOC course. With some minor modifications that is now an APS course.
Depending where you go, a current MCC/JOC course may well be the same standard and quality as the APS course.
I suspect the issue with Ryanair was that they had a number of candidates who simply had got overwhelmed on the sim ride, wasting both their time and that of the assessors. Hence their preference for those who have reached a certain defined standards prior to assessment.
Expensive it may be, but money well spent if you are successful. The cheaper the option, then potentially a greater risk of failure, and 'money down the drain'.
Training is an investment. There are no quick fixes. Think QUALITY every time.
I am sorry I strongly disagree with these overpriced programs. They will not prepare you for an airline assessment for various reasons:
1. You don't know what type you will be checked on. (A320, 737, Embraer or other)
2. The date you do such a course can be months or even years before you get a real chance, unless practiced regularly it will give you little help by the time you finally have an assessment.
3. As a Cadet they will not be assessing you for failures etc. If you are non type rated they will check your general flying / handling skills. The HR interview will in 90% of the cases by equally as important as the sim.
4. MCC is the regulatory requirement, get the one that is "cheapest" possible, save your money until you know you have an interview / assessment. Then book Sim with instructor, same type as assessment. Most sim profiles for assessment for companies like RyR, Wizz, Ezy, BA and more, are available, and you book one or more Sim sessions shortly before your assessment date, and practice exactly what you will be expected to perform in your assessment.
5. No airline will give if you have some Certificate from either of these places, equally from places like Oxford etc., you doing a MCC course spending a few thousands, while they have integrated cadets spending over 100.000 Euros, will not count for the same from the FTO if they do have a connection with airlines.
EASA requires you have a MCC only, some airlines asks for a JOC, again if you do have to do it, do it as cheap as possible, as this has very little value when applying for a job, besides that you have to have it on your CV.
Rather spend 1000 - 1500 Euro on a Sim when you have an assessment, save your money until then.
1. You don't know what type you will be checked on. (A320, 737, Embraer or other)
2. The date you do such a course can be months or even years before you get a real chance, unless practiced regularly it will give you little help by the time you finally have an assessment.
3. As a Cadet they will not be assessing you for failures etc. If you are non type rated they will check your general flying / handling skills. The HR interview will in 90% of the cases by equally as important as the sim.
4. MCC is the regulatory requirement, get the one that is "cheapest" possible, save your money until you know you have an interview / assessment. Then book Sim with instructor, same type as assessment. Most sim profiles for assessment for companies like RyR, Wizz, Ezy, BA and more, are available, and you book one or more Sim sessions shortly before your assessment date, and practice exactly what you will be expected to perform in your assessment.
5. No airline will give if you have some Certificate from either of these places, equally from places like Oxford etc., you doing a MCC course spending a few thousands, while they have integrated cadets spending over 100.000 Euros, will not count for the same from the FTO if they do have a connection with airlines.
EASA requires you have a MCC only, some airlines asks for a JOC, again if you do have to do it, do it as cheap as possible, as this has very little value when applying for a job, besides that you have to have it on your CV.
Rather spend 1000 - 1500 Euro on a Sim when you have an assessment, save your money until then.
de minimus non curat lex
I am sorry I strongly disagree with these overpriced programs. They will not prepare you for an airline assessment for various reasons:
1. You don't know what type you will be checked on. (A320, 737, Embraer or other)
2. The date you do such a course can be months or even years before you get a real chance, unless practiced regularly it will give you little help by the time you finally have an assessment.
3. As a Cadet they will not be assessing you for failures etc. If you are non type rated they will check your general flying / handling skills. The HR interview will in 90% of the cases by equally as important as the sim.
4. MCC is the regulatory requirement, get the one that is "cheapest" possible, save your money until you know you have an interview / assessment. Then book Sim with instructor, same type as assessment. Most sim profiles for assessment for companies like RyR, Wizz, Ezy, BA and more, are available, and you book one or more Sim sessions shortly before your assessment date, and practice exactly what you will be expected to perform in your assessment.
5. No airline will give if you have some Certificate from either of these places, equally from places like Oxford etc., you doing a MCC course spending a few thousands, while they have integrated cadets spending over 100.000 Euros, will not count for the same from the FTO if they do have a connection with airlines.
EASA requires you have a MCC only, some airlines asks for a JOC, again if you do have to do it, do it as cheap as possible, as this has very little value when applying for a job, besides that you have to have it on your CV.
Rather spend 1000 - 1500 Euro on a Sim when you have an assessment, save your money until then.
1. You don't know what type you will be checked on. (A320, 737, Embraer or other)
2. The date you do such a course can be months or even years before you get a real chance, unless practiced regularly it will give you little help by the time you finally have an assessment.
3. As a Cadet they will not be assessing you for failures etc. If you are non type rated they will check your general flying / handling skills. The HR interview will in 90% of the cases by equally as important as the sim.
4. MCC is the regulatory requirement, get the one that is "cheapest" possible, save your money until you know you have an interview / assessment. Then book Sim with instructor, same type as assessment. Most sim profiles for assessment for companies like RyR, Wizz, Ezy, BA and more, are available, and you book one or more Sim sessions shortly before your assessment date, and practice exactly what you will be expected to perform in your assessment.
5. No airline will give if you have some Certificate from either of these places, equally from places like Oxford etc., you doing a MCC course spending a few thousands, while they have integrated cadets spending over 100.000 Euros, will not count for the same from the FTO if they do have a connection with airlines.
EASA requires you have a MCC only, some airlines asks for a JOC, again if you do have to do it, do it as cheap as possible, as this has very little value when applying for a job, besides that you have to have it on your CV.
Rather spend 1000 - 1500 Euro on a Sim when you have an assessment, save your money until then.
Botton line, set the attitude, set the thrust & TRIM. THEN hold trim check adjust......
2. Whilst the market is buoyant Junior birdmen are being invited for interview / sim ride within weeks of completing the MCC. You actually hear of them attempting the process BEFORE or during the MCC course. NOT RECOMMENDED
3. Not entirely true. Smoke in the cabin as an emergency has been known for non typed pilots. Good CRM is vital. Competent skills in both seats as PF & PM critical. If you cannot operate as a crew member, the HR part will be irrelevant.
4. This would be a valid statement, provided you are competent in the first place.
5. Where you train is irrelevant if you cannot fly for toffee. Integrated courses never guarantees success. You need to be competent irrespective of your background.
If there is a gap of more than 28 days between completing the course and the sim ride then a "top up" sim practice needs to be considered.
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T.K
What you must remember is that the more time you spent in the simulator before your interview/sim ride, the greater chance you have of being successful. Equally important is the device you learn on. If you aspire to say Ryanair then clearly a B737-800 training device is the obvious choice. If however you set your sights on a turbo-prop, then the choice of device is not critical.
APS in essence means that the JOC element which historically was and remains unregulated, has now been approved and is part of the MCC course, now renamed APS.
The reputable provider offered a MCC/JOC course. With some minor modifications that is now an APS course.
Depending where you go, a current MCC/JOC course may well be the same standard and quality as the APS course.
I suspect the issue with Ryanair was that they had a number of candidates who simply had got overwhelmed on the sim ride, wasting both their time and that of the assessors. Hence their preference for those who have reached a certain defined standards prior to assessment.
Expensive it may be, but money well spent if you are successful. The cheaper the option, then potentially a greater risk of failure, and 'money down the drain'.
Training is an investment. There are no quick fixes. Think QUALITY every time.
What you must remember is that the more time you spent in the simulator before your interview/sim ride, the greater chance you have of being successful. Equally important is the device you learn on. If you aspire to say Ryanair then clearly a B737-800 training device is the obvious choice. If however you set your sights on a turbo-prop, then the choice of device is not critical.
APS in essence means that the JOC element which historically was and remains unregulated, has now been approved and is part of the MCC course, now renamed APS.
The reputable provider offered a MCC/JOC course. With some minor modifications that is now an APS course.
Depending where you go, a current MCC/JOC course may well be the same standard and quality as the APS course.
I suspect the issue with Ryanair was that they had a number of candidates who simply had got overwhelmed on the sim ride, wasting both their time and that of the assessors. Hence their preference for those who have reached a certain defined standards prior to assessment.
Expensive it may be, but money well spent if you are successful. The cheaper the option, then potentially a greater risk of failure, and 'money down the drain'.
Training is an investment. There are no quick fixes. Think QUALITY every time.
The APS is completely unnecessary. Rather spend your money with a good MCC on a FFS. And you still pay less than for an APS.
For a standard MCC which one from UK/Ireland so you recommend?
In Germany Cockpit4u, TFC Kaeufer and RWL are the biggest schools with the highest standards.
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Regarding quality I agree with you. But regarding necessity I agree with 2unlimited.
The APS is completely unnecessary. Rather spend your money with a good MCC on a FFS. And you still pay less than for an APS.
For a standard MCC which one from UK/Ireland so you recommend?
In Germany Cockpit4u, TFC Kaeufer and RWL are the biggest schools with the highest standards.
The APS is completely unnecessary. Rather spend your money with a good MCC on a FFS. And you still pay less than for an APS.
For a standard MCC which one from UK/Ireland so you recommend?
In Germany Cockpit4u, TFC Kaeufer and RWL are the biggest schools with the highest standards.
1. Irrespective of what device is used, you need to be competent at RAW DATA flying, and if light ac is your background then the power/pitch couple together with interia are new the ingredients which require training & practice.
Botton line, set the attitude, set the thrust & TRIM. THEN hold trim check adjust......
2. Whilst the market is buoyant Junior birdmen are being invited for interview / sim ride within weeks of completing the MCC. You actually hear of them attempting the process BEFORE or during the MCC course. NOT RECOMMENDED
3. Not entirely true. Smoke in the cabin as an emergency has been known for non typed pilots. Good CRM is vital. Competent skills in both seats as PF & PM critical. If you cannot operate as a crew member, the HR part will be irrelevant.
4. This would be a valid statement, provided you are competent in the first place.
5. Where you train is irrelevant if you cannot fly for toffee. Integrated courses never guarantees success. You need to be competent irrespective of your background.
If there is a gap of more than 28 days between completing the course and the sim ride then a "top up" sim practice needs to be considered.
If you done one or the other, it will only confuse you to criss cross between the two.
Boeing is a cluttered piece of junk from the 60's, while Airbus slightly newer flying computer.
2. The market is not that buoyant for inexperienced cadets, there is a high failure rate, as there are so many cadets to choose from. Whenever companies like RyR opens up recruitment, they normally have several thousand applications, of those they will only hire 20 - 30 at a time.
Now also loads of experienced pilots looking for jobs after Monarch, WoW, Air Berlin and other companies gone bust. Many companies are now taking these experienced guys first, as it helps them ease up on their training department.
3. Sure basic skills of CRM you get during your MCC, basic skills is what is needed. They don't expect that you are a complete pilot when you join as a cadet, because they want to teach you from scratch, to make sure you don't have any bad habits that you might have picked up during your initial training.
Most airlines now want you shaped into their ethos of how to operate. Their SOP's and their way of thinking.
Getting smoke etc. are very complex drills, and if given during an assessment for a Cadet, then this I fell is grossly unfair and wrong, and has nothing to do in an assessment of non TR cadet. Unless he has experience on other type I would not expect to see this given.
Without a good HR interview, you won't even get the time in the Sim by the company.
4. With good preparation and 1 or 2 Sim sessions in a FFS on same type as will be used for assessment, you should be more then enough ready, any competent trainer that knows the Sim drills that are used, can get this done nicely over a 4 hours sim session, with brief and debrief. Of course some self study in advance is required. To prepare yourself for the profiles required.
5. My point with the integrated courses is that many of them already have agreements with airlines, and the Cadets from this group will always have priority with regards to job placement ahead of anyone doing some advanced MCC/JOC course.
As I mention, anyone can get interview with Ryanair, even without these packages, of course if you do get interview/sim, you should prepare properly, that's when you need you Sim time.
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If you knew for certain that your sim ride was on the Airbus, then choosing the Bus for the MCC is fine.
You might be a tagged student for say EZY then MCC on it makes sense.
Otherwise as a newly qualified CPL/IR hot from a DA42, still requires to gain basic skills which is best achieved using B737, aka “a cluttered piece of junk from the 60’s” as described by 2Unlimited
True the A320 will be easier to fly. But that is not what you want just yet. YOU NEED TO GAIN THE BASIC SKILLS FIRST and not take the easier option just yet with auto trim etc.
Do not waste your money on a FFS. A fixed based sim is better as this stage, as you get no sensation to help you, and therefore must rely solely on your ability to scan.
If you can demonstrate basic handling skills, with good CRM you will be successful.
You might be a tagged student for say EZY then MCC on it makes sense.
Otherwise as a newly qualified CPL/IR hot from a DA42, still requires to gain basic skills which is best achieved using B737, aka “a cluttered piece of junk from the 60’s” as described by 2Unlimited
True the A320 will be easier to fly. But that is not what you want just yet. YOU NEED TO GAIN THE BASIC SKILLS FIRST and not take the easier option just yet with auto trim etc.
Do not waste your money on a FFS. A fixed based sim is better as this stage, as you get no sensation to help you, and therefore must rely solely on your ability to scan.
If you can demonstrate basic handling skills, with good CRM you will be successful.
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uncle dickie;
Thank you for the input. I'm looking for a school to do my MCC or APS but haven't decided yet. Reading some reports here and there are a lot of pros and cons for each. My budget limits me but I want to invest in the best way. Because you find more A320 in Europe I think it will be on that one. I'm not looking for Ryan more for easy or Brussels. What do you think? And they only require a standard MCC.
Thank you for the input. I'm looking for a school to do my MCC or APS but haven't decided yet. Reading some reports here and there are a lot of pros and cons for each. My budget limits me but I want to invest in the best way. Because you find more A320 in Europe I think it will be on that one. I'm not looking for Ryan more for easy or Brussels. What do you think? And they only require a standard MCC.
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uncle dickie;
Thank you for the input. I'm looking for a school to do my MCC or APS but haven't decided yet. Reading some reports here and there are a lot of pros and cons for each. My budget limits me but I want to invest in the best way. Because you find more A320 in Europe I think it will be on that one. I'm not looking for Ryan more for easy or Brussels. What do you think? And they only require a standard MCC.
Thank you for the input. I'm looking for a school to do my MCC or APS but haven't decided yet. Reading some reports here and there are a lot of pros and cons for each. My budget limits me but I want to invest in the best way. Because you find more A320 in Europe I think it will be on that one. I'm not looking for Ryan more for easy or Brussels. What do you think? And they only require a standard MCC.