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L3 full time course March start date

Old 31st Jan 2019, 14:48
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L3 full time course March start date

Hi all ,

starting intergated course at L3 I start my ATPL exams at Coventry Airport 11th March anyone else ?

Be good to hear from you.

Cheer Rebecca
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Old 31st Jan 2019, 15:29
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Good luck.. however go into L3 eyes wide open. Crazy long delays at the moment and lots of disruption to the programme.
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Old 1st Feb 2019, 15:21
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Originally Posted by TangoAlphad View Post
Good luck.. however go into L3 eyes wide open. Crazy long delays at the moment and lots of disruption to the programme.
Are delays still “up to 6 months” as mentioned on other threads or are they getting worse? I’m due to be starting a tagged MPL course but this is making me reconsider modular training.
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 09:19
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Depending on who has tagged you I'd be inclined to stay put if you are able to push the repayments back and they aren't based on you starting work immediately. Tagged to an airline is an advantage in a market that may start stagnating at any point.

Sadly come across many many stories of young folk believing the timeline is solid and they will walk into a job within 2 weeks of finishing and arrange the loan repayments accordingly.
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 13:10
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Originally Posted by pmct View Post


Are delays still “up to 6 months” as mentioned on other threads or are they getting worse? I’m due to be starting a tagged MPL course but this is making me reconsider modular training.
Don't give up the tagging, especially if it's brightly coloured. You won't feel the worst of the effects of delays and L3 are required to push you through.

All at the expense of your whitetail colleagues.

Good luck!
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 16:38
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Originally Posted by TangoAlphad View Post
Good luck.. however go into L3 eyes wide open. Crazy long delays at the moment and lots of disruption to the programme.
Can you define long delays please?

Do you mean delays from application to actually starting the programme.
or
Once you've come out the other end with your (tagged or frozen) ATPL, a delay to finding your first FO role? (or even getting type approval)


Thanks
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Old 3rd Feb 2019, 01:55
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Originally Posted by pmct View Post


Are delays still “up to 6 months” as mentioned on other threads or are they getting worse? I’m due to be starting a tagged MPL course but this is making me reconsider modular training.
“Up to 6 months” is misleading in my opinion. The fact of the matter is, large delays are affecting everyone across the board. This has had a knock on affect on morale, and plays havoc with personal financial planning. Airline tagged schemes do fare better, but expect disruption. If i had a “Whitetail” course start date i would thoroughly reasarech the current situation at L3 before committing.
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Old 3rd Feb 2019, 18:31
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Thanks all for the info - it’s genuinely appreciated.

[Edited for relevance - will post this on another thread if needs be]

OP - Good luck with your course and hope you manage to connect with people starting with you. Will message you if I do end up in Coventry - I think I owe you a drink for hijacking your thread!

Last edited by pmct; 4th Feb 2019 at 00:04.
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Old 3rd Feb 2019, 18:55
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I think I owe you a drink for hijacking your thread!
Long winded way to try get a girl out for a drink.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 21:59
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Hi there, I know several people currently with L3.

There are dozens and dozens of people delayed, some have been delayed more than one year between ground school and flying, some grounded after only a few hrs of flying or getting solo to make way for other people on airline schemes as they are individually sponsored. Students have been messed around and some have spoken to solicitors etc but your in a rock and a hard place.

They pay 'compensation' of something like £25 a week if your delayed for 3 months £30 for 6 months and £75 a week for 9 months plus or thereabouts. Lots of students bored and some asked to start paying back bonds when they havent finished flying.....if they dont the flying will stop. Mad!

My view would be do you exams at BGS or even an in house place in 6 months, do some hr building at home and have fun doing it in your own time at a flying club (NOT a commercial school) then head to Europe on a CPL MEIR course. It will cost less than half of integrated and probably a third of the time and u will get before other people have finished their training.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 22:46
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Originally Posted by CaptainPugwash12 View Post
Hi there, I know several people currently with L3.

There are dozens and dozens of people delayed, some have been delayed more than one year between ground school and flying, some grounded after only a few hrs of flying or getting solo to make way for other people on airline schemes as they are individually sponsored. Students have been messed around and some have spoken to solicitors etc but your in a rock and a hard place.

They pay 'compensation' of something like £25 a week if your delayed for 3 months £30 for 6 months and £75 a week for 9 months plus or thereabouts. Lots of students bored and some asked to start paying back bonds when they havent finished flying.....if they dont the flying will stop. Mad!

My view would be do you exams at BGS or even an in house place in 6 months, do some hr building at home and have fun doing it in your own time at a flying club (NOT a commercial school) then head to Europe on a CPL MEIR course. It will cost less than half of integrated and probably a third of the time and u will get before other people have finished their training.
Maybe a slightly rude question, but those people who are delayed. Is this because L3 believe they wont complete their training successfully and they are trying to subtly move them out?
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 11:40
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No the majority are self funded and the main chap I know had average of 98% ground school results and already had a PPL so more than competent, he just didnt pass the selection for the tagged scheme.

Many reasons including greed, they had a commercial fallout with one of the schools I think it was Arizona so they have a reduced capacity and there is a lack of aircraft but plenty of accommodation......, some have been shifted to Norway, some back to Bournemouth and others NZ and some a mix of both. They totally lack integrity they are selling courses still which they know they cannot provide but people are willing to pay. Its the same for Aeros, they have very limited capacity and all of the decent instructors left due to non payment but regardless of modular/integrated once they have some money from you its hard to leave....

Estimates I have heard it will take them between 1-2 years to get rid of the backlog, so I would stay clear of them for a year AT LEAST. If you can afford that kind of money over 100,000 go to a school then find a school that you can put it on a credit card so if any issues you are covered by consumer rights.

If you are really considering them or any school, use facebook, PPRuNe, someone you know who is there or just left and can tell you how it is over a coffee one to one. IGNORE all marketing material and sales days/fairs at T5, total rubbish!!!

Alot of people dont realise it but the best training schools are NOT in the UK but in Europe where they have a different culture and are there to help rather and teach you than hinder and take as much money off you as possible.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 14:11
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Originally Posted by Plain1 View Post
Maybe a slightly rude question, but those people who are delayed. Is this because L3 believe they wont complete their training successfully and they are trying to subtly move them out?
Not at all.
L3 biggest client is Air France, because this airline pays directly for a whole bunch of cadets.
Easyjet is also a big provider but does not pay directly L3 so they are not really a client. Just a concerned third party.
Anyway, all these tagged cadets (whether self sponsored or airline sponsored) will have less delay than whitetails.
Tagged cadets will go in front of whitetails. Because there is a huge pressure from the airline. There is very probably a penalty if L3 is late in delivering an airline cadet. And we're not talking 35£ per week. Rather 35£ per hour.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 16:22
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Originally Posted by CaptainPugwash12 View Post
...

Estimates I have heard it will take them between 1-2 years to get rid of the backlog, so I would stay clear of them for a year AT LEAST. If you can afford that kind of money over 100,000 go to a school then find a school that you can put it on a credit card so if any issues you are covered by consumer rights.

If you are really considering them or any school, use facebook, PPRuNe, someone you know who is there or just left and can tell you how it is over a coffee one to one. IGNORE all marketing material and sales days/fairs at T5, total rubbish!!!

Alot of people dont realise it but the best training schools are NOT in the UK but in Europe where they have a different culture and are there to help rather and teach you than hinder and take as much money off you as possible.
That's worrying! I was hoping to go through their selection process and start training sometime this year! Most probably as a White Tail since I didn't get onto the EZY scheme late 2017. And they aren't currently offering any programmes with UK based airlines

I did consider training abroad, but I can't speak any other languages to a level that I think you'd need for such a technical profession. I can get by in French and German in terms of being a tourist, but I'm far from fluent in either. Would you care to mention other schools you would consider over L3?

Originally Posted by KayPam View Post
Not at all.
L3 biggest client is Air France, because this airline pays directly for a whole bunch of cadets.
Easyjet is also a big provider but does not pay directly L3 so they are not really a client. Just a concerned third party.
Anyway, all these tagged cadets (whether self sponsored or airline sponsored) will have less delay than whitetails.
Tagged cadets will go in front of whitetails. Because there is a huge pressure from the airline. There is very probably a penalty if L3 is late in delivering an airline cadet. And we're not talking 35£ per week. Rather 35£ per hour.
That was a concern of mine, that White Tails would always be treated as second class candidates to anyone tagged or on a scheme. As we've seen with Pilot George he has had a significant wait between his fATPL completion and EZY Type Rating

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Old 10th Feb 2019, 18:41
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Yes, that is most definitely true white tail and self sponsored are more like 3rd class citizens as they know they have you by the balls!

English is the language of aviation, if you are going to train and do your CPLMEIR you would do it in the Nordics, Germany, Holland where English is particularly good, a few reports that Poland instructors English is poor but a few phone calls and a visit there should be part of your due diligence.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 20:34
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Originally Posted by CaptainPugwash12 View Post
English is the language of aviation, if you are going to train and do your CPLMEIR you would do it in the Nordics, Germany, Holland where English is particularly good, a few reports that Poland instructors English is poor but a few phone calls and a visit there should be part of your due diligence.
Thanks, I worried that the classroom sections would not be in English. Certainly Munich Flight appear to offer their ATPL in English and German variants.

From Googling it appears that the top 2 EU based firms are

FTE Jerez (who it appears include full board on their integrated ATPL, which is another good point)
Munich Flight Academy

And in terms of UK . Its basically between L3 and CAE. The former have peaked my interest since I went through them for EZY and they've recently been building a new site which is closer to my home. (presumably to increase capacity) So it makes it much more attractive in terms of costs.

Last question, since I feel like I've badgered you enough (apologies)

Is there a thread on this site listing all the current training providers? So that I can go and do some research on all of them to help narrow down options

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Old 10th Feb 2019, 22:04
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As we've seen with Pilot George he has had a significant wait between his fATPL completion and EZY Type Rating
Just to add my two cents, my wait was nothing to do with the fact I was whitetail. The type rating wait was actually due to easyJet's specific requirement for French speakers for French bases. The majority of type rating courses between August and my start date in December were either easyJet ATPL cadets coming through the system who were pre-planned on that type rating course right back from their courses inception, or French speaking Whitetail cadets. This specific French speaking requirement has since ceased and the wait time from airline offer to type rating is now about two weeks in the case of my peers.

Last edited by gbotley; 10th Feb 2019 at 22:16.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 00:18
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Originally Posted by KayPam View Post
Not at all.
L3 biggest client is Air France, because this airline pays directly for a whole bunch of cadets.
Easyjet is also a big provider but does not pay directly L3 so they are not really a client. Just a concerned third party.
Anyway, all these tagged cadets (whether self sponsored or airline sponsored) will have less delay than whitetails.
Tagged cadets will go in front of whitetails. Because there is a huge pressure from the airline. There is very probably a penalty if L3 is late in delivering an airline cadet. And we're not talking 35£ per week. Rather 35£ per hour.
Unless you work in the finance department at L3 CTS you dont know what EZY pay L3 for each cadet that they source. L3 when you boil it down are acting as a recruitment agency, and that costs money whatever industry you are in. Don’t forget the “Security Bond” is “Transferred” to the airline, and all the interest goes elsewhere over those 7 years that it is repaid. The airline will also save on the difference in NI contributions / taxes / pension contributions because your salary is reduced and then topped up by the bond payments. Its safe to say that easyjet have a significant financial interest in each and every cadet.

Right now there are cadets in L3 with HK Airlines, Jeststar Asia, Royal Bruni, Virgin, IndiGo, easyJet, BA, the L3 instructor course, Singapore Airlines, Air France, Oman Air and probably a few more. Each airline has a financial interest in each cadet and each airline will be affected by the delays in some way. It is understandable why the White tail courses get larger delays than the airline courses.

Last edited by BaronVonBarnstormer; 11th Feb 2019 at 00:28.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 15:54
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Originally Posted by gbotley View Post
Just to add my two cents, my wait was nothing to do with the fact I was whitetail. The type rating wait was actually due to easyJet's specific requirement for French speakers for French bases. The majority of type rating courses between August and my start date in December were either easyJet ATPL cadets coming through the system who were pre-planned on that type rating course right back from their courses inception, or French speaking Whitetail cadets. This specific French speaking requirement has since ceased and the wait time from airline offer to type rating is now about two weeks in the case of my peers.
Whitetails cadets are currently facing 6 months delays.
Some cadets even had begun their VFR flight training and have been sent home for 6 months.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 13:18
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Hi all,

I've also heard about the delays at L3, supposedly due to a FI shortage (who get hired by airlines). Now I know it's quite off from the original topic but does anyone have an insight as to what the situation is over at CAE and FTE?

Thank you
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