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ME/IR instructor shortage ?

Old 21st Jan 2019, 20:30
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B61
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 63
ME/IR instructor shortage ?

Is this starting to bite ?

The EASA changes requiring 200 hours IFR to be an IRI cut off most of the new supply after 2012.

Rumours is that one of the big integrated schools in the UK is now telling students the IR could take between 5 and 6 months to complete, rather than the normal 6 to 8 weeks. This implies an average of just over one training session per week, which must make training consistency very poor.

Is this a problem across all schools ?

i thought AOPA were pushing for the return of the 50 hours instrument flight alternative ?

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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 06:31
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It's a problem everywhere - there are massive delays in some schools, mainly, but not entirely due to instructor shortage. It doesn't just affect IRs.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 08:21
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So how is any one going to get 200hrs instrument flying? The easy way is to fly for an airline but once you have an airline job why would you return to instructing?


I
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 08:57
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: E3 holding short of 20....
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There are other ways to get IR hours under my point of view. Part time cargo, corporate, air taxi, and ferrying ac to name a few.
There are a number of pilots that fly often GA under IMC and have under their shoulders a great experience.
There are many retired airline pilots that continue sharing their experience as FI.
If you are in the FI/CRI business you will grow with time, you will be able to jump to the next level by gaining the experience as you will get opportunities with time. If you are airline experienced is great however whoever is doing this, needs to consider that it should not be any shortcut.
While you are doing well and experienced in the IFR world you may be lacking in the teaching side, in the piston world, and your self motivation.
The rules are there for a reason.
I would even make them tougher if I could.
200 hours is a base.

Last edited by Airgus; 23rd Jan 2019 at 08:07.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 08:57
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The airlines are not the only game in town. I have an instructor here who has had enough and just wants to instruct.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 10:16
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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The integrated school I went to earlier this year used to quote 12 weeks for the IR training phase. Mine took 18 weeks. I think integrated schools at the moment will be nowhere near their advertised timeframe. 20 months seems to be the minimum at the moment from zero to fATPL. Far too many students being squeezed through the door, and nowhere near enough instructors to deal with them.

When I first started the IR phase, my instructor had three students. When I finished the IR phase, he had nine students. This was caused by a combination of instructors leaving, the inability to recruit, and the increasing number of students.

Instructors used to do two flights per day, or four sims. So that worked out at 3-4 days between training sessions if he had nine students. Especially when the students closer to their IRT used to get extra attention. The maths seems legit, and I imagine one session per week is correct.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 13:53
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I read this post, and since I am planning to do CPL+ME+IR later this year, I thought that maybe it is time to make some reservations. Turns out, that it is really not a thing. Major schools may have problems, but smaller are like "we can start right away, or any time you want". Try 2nd page of google results.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 16:50
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I heard of a delay of 8 months at one place.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 18:52
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B61
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Is the problem that once someone is stuck on on Integrated course and hits the 6 to 8 months now required for an IR, they are stuck with it because they can't swap to a more efficient provider, like a modular student can ?

The large schools are now owned by big overseas corporates more used to B2B sales and and massive margins; looks like the self sponsored students are just finding that they are very low on the priority list and will just have to bend over and take it for much longer than originally anticipated.

it must be frustrating for them when they see everyone else able to apply for jobs in a booming market.

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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 21:44
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From what i can see, major integrated schools to be avoided right now are BAA and L3, both are have absolutely ridiculous delays of 6-8 months for students, training has been absolutely destroyed. Go modular if you can because this integrated greed seems like a trend, even oaa i was hearing having 3 months delay.

They will not accept us to pay late, so why they think it's ok to train us late?

No, go modular, a big mistake for me was not giving proper consideration for modular route in smaller but better schools until it was too late. Even when you are training at these big schools the training is going so slow, flying once every 10 days in baa was regular (now seems they are trying to fix things but still are problems for many sitting home since summer), some reported one flight in 2 weeks at L3. So even when not sent home for delay your 'training' resembles holiday lifestyle, nothing to do most days, just looking from the window.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 05:56
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The big problem with any integrated course is that you don't get any sort of licence until the end of the course - at least with modular you get a PPL early and can fly outside.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 07:07
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Personally I find the 30 PIC MEP as the main hurdle. The return I would see from putting my hand in my pocket to hour build those hours just isn't worth it.
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Old 25th Jan 2019, 15:15
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I overheard a couple of students from one of the big UK Integrated schools saying that they were disappointed to only fly once every two weeks in the twin. Quite something if so.
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 12:46
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I've seen it myself. On arrival at their VFR school on the other side of the world I waited a month to be allocated an instructor. A whole month of just sat in the accommodation. Waiting. No emails. calls, apologies or anything. Instructors were resigning by the handful, and still dozens of students were arriving every couple of weeks. At a point my instructor had 13 students. I flew once per week if I was lucky. But that ended up once every 10 days or even two weeks, when the tagged students had been prioritised. We were quoted 5 months for this stage, but it took me just over 7 months. I passed every check ride first time and did the course in minimum hours, so I didn't cause any delays myself. Accommodation was part of the fee, but it was still two more months of living costs to pay for. As Tecnamflyer says, the finance department were pestering us for payment of our fee instalments after a month of us being sat around, waiting to be allocated an instructor so we could actually start our training. It was abysmal.

On arrival back in the UK for the IR stage, it was slightly better. But then a load of instructors resigned, and the students kept pouring in. Instructors were used to 2-3 students each, but this soon became over 6. When I had my IRT, my instructor had 9 students. Flying once per week was the norm. Eventually the school started giving students leave after retiring from the VFR stage abroad, and starting their IR. To restrict the huge flow of students into the severely understaffed IR training department. It started as a month, and when I finished was more like 4 months. As far as I know, it could be more than that now.

If you're self-sponsored, then you're the bottom of the pile. The sponsored schemes and tagged students always have the upper hand, especially when the airlines start getting involved and make complaints. It was common for a tagged student to fly five times per week, whilst a self-sponsored would be once every 10 days.

It was a sorry state of affairs. 90% caused because of a lack of instructors, and 10% poor management. I would seriously consider your actions before choosing to train at a premium integrated school at the moment. The timeframe they quote in the glossy brochures is fantasy. 50 or so more instructors per school would eradicate this problem.
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 23:33
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B61
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Did this follow a well known integrated school in the Uk being taken over by a large North American corporate, reducing the name from three letter acronym to two characters ?

They seem to have a talent for driving away the people needed to actually provide training.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 08:13
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Join Date: Jun 2017
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Hello guys, what are the chances of a non-eu getting instructor job any where in the UK. I just got my CPL ME IR last week in SAfrica and wanna continue the journey.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 10:25
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Join Date: Aug 2002
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what are the chances of a non-eu getting instructor job any where in the UK.
Pretty good, once you have your EASA CPL, ME, IR, FI (unrestricted) and ME CRI.
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 16:59
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Join Date: Jun 2017
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Originally Posted by BillieBob View Post
Pretty good, once you have your EASA CPL, ME, IR, FI (unrestricted) and ME CRI.
thanks, converting from icao to EASA is a headache but will look into it.
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