ME/IR instructor shortage ?
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ME/IR instructor shortage ?
Is this starting to bite ?
The EASA changes requiring 200 hours IFR to be an IRI cut off most of the new supply after 2012.
Rumours is that one of the big integrated schools in the UK is now telling students the IR could take between 5 and 6 months to complete, rather than the normal 6 to 8 weeks. This implies an average of just over one training session per week, which must make training consistency very poor.
Is this a problem across all schools ?
i thought AOPA were pushing for the return of the 50 hours instrument flight alternative ?
The EASA changes requiring 200 hours IFR to be an IRI cut off most of the new supply after 2012.
Rumours is that one of the big integrated schools in the UK is now telling students the IR could take between 5 and 6 months to complete, rather than the normal 6 to 8 weeks. This implies an average of just over one training session per week, which must make training consistency very poor.
Is this a problem across all schools ?
i thought AOPA were pushing for the return of the 50 hours instrument flight alternative ?
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It's a problem everywhere - there are massive delays in some schools, mainly, but not entirely due to instructor shortage. It doesn't just affect IRs.
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There are other ways to get IR hours under my point of view. Part time cargo, corporate, air taxi, and ferrying ac to name a few.
There are a number of pilots that fly often GA under IMC and have under their shoulders a great experience.
There are many retired airline pilots that continue sharing their experience as FI.
If you are in the FI/CRI business you will grow with time, you will be able to jump to the next level by gaining the experience as you will get opportunities with time. If you are airline experienced is great however whoever is doing this, needs to consider that it should not be any shortcut.
While you are doing well and experienced in the IFR world you may be lacking in the teaching side, in the piston world, and your self motivation.
The rules are there for a reason.
I would even make them tougher if I could.
200 hours is a base.
There are a number of pilots that fly often GA under IMC and have under their shoulders a great experience.
There are many retired airline pilots that continue sharing their experience as FI.
If you are in the FI/CRI business you will grow with time, you will be able to jump to the next level by gaining the experience as you will get opportunities with time. If you are airline experienced is great however whoever is doing this, needs to consider that it should not be any shortcut.
While you are doing well and experienced in the IFR world you may be lacking in the teaching side, in the piston world, and your self motivation.
The rules are there for a reason.
I would even make them tougher if I could.
200 hours is a base.
Last edited by Airgus; 23rd Jan 2019 at 08:07.
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The integrated school I went to earlier this year used to quote 12 weeks for the IR training phase. Mine took 18 weeks. I think integrated schools at the moment will be nowhere near their advertised timeframe. 20 months seems to be the minimum at the moment from zero to fATPL. Far too many students being squeezed through the door, and nowhere near enough instructors to deal with them.
When I first started the IR phase, my instructor had three students. When I finished the IR phase, he had nine students. This was caused by a combination of instructors leaving, the inability to recruit, and the increasing number of students.
Instructors used to do two flights per day, or four sims. So that worked out at 3-4 days between training sessions if he had nine students. Especially when the students closer to their IRT used to get extra attention. The maths seems legit, and I imagine one session per week is correct.
When I first started the IR phase, my instructor had three students. When I finished the IR phase, he had nine students. This was caused by a combination of instructors leaving, the inability to recruit, and the increasing number of students.
Instructors used to do two flights per day, or four sims. So that worked out at 3-4 days between training sessions if he had nine students. Especially when the students closer to their IRT used to get extra attention. The maths seems legit, and I imagine one session per week is correct.
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I read this post, and since I am planning to do CPL+ME+IR later this year, I thought that maybe it is time to make some reservations. Turns out, that it is really not a thing. Major schools may have problems, but smaller are like "we can start right away, or any time you want". Try 2nd page of google results.
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Is the problem that once someone is stuck on on Integrated course and hits the 6 to 8 months now required for an IR, they are stuck with it because they can't swap to a more efficient provider, like a modular student can ?
The large schools are now owned by big overseas corporates more used to B2B sales and and massive margins; looks like the self sponsored students are just finding that they are very low on the priority list and will just have to bend over and take it for much longer than originally anticipated.
it must be frustrating for them when they see everyone else able to apply for jobs in a booming market.
The large schools are now owned by big overseas corporates more used to B2B sales and and massive margins; looks like the self sponsored students are just finding that they are very low on the priority list and will just have to bend over and take it for much longer than originally anticipated.
it must be frustrating for them when they see everyone else able to apply for jobs in a booming market.
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The big problem with any integrated course is that you don't get any sort of licence until the end of the course - at least with modular you get a PPL early and can fly outside.
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I overheard a couple of students from one of the big UK Integrated schools saying that they were disappointed to only fly once every two weeks in the twin. Quite something if so.
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I've seen it myself. On arrival at their VFR school on the other side of the world I waited a month to be allocated an instructor. A whole month of just sat in the accommodation. Waiting. No emails. calls, apologies or anything. Instructors were resigning by the handful, and still dozens of students were arriving every couple of weeks. At a point my instructor had 13 students. I flew once per week if I was lucky. But that ended up once every 10 days or even two weeks, when the tagged students had been prioritised. We were quoted 5 months for this stage, but it took me just over 7 months. I passed every check ride first time and did the course in minimum hours, so I didn't cause any delays myself. Accommodation was part of the fee, but it was still two more months of living costs to pay for. As Tecnamflyer says, the finance department were pestering us for payment of our fee instalments after a month of us being sat around, waiting to be allocated an instructor so we could actually start our training. It was abysmal.
On arrival back in the UK for the IR stage, it was slightly better. But then a load of instructors resigned, and the students kept pouring in. Instructors were used to 2-3 students each, but this soon became over 6. When I had my IRT, my instructor had 9 students. Flying once per week was the norm. Eventually the school started giving students leave after retiring from the VFR stage abroad, and starting their IR. To restrict the huge flow of students into the severely understaffed IR training department. It started as a month, and when I finished was more like 4 months. As far as I know, it could be more than that now.
If you're self-sponsored, then you're the bottom of the pile. The sponsored schemes and tagged students always have the upper hand, especially when the airlines start getting involved and make complaints. It was common for a tagged student to fly five times per week, whilst a self-sponsored would be once every 10 days.
It was a sorry state of affairs. 90% caused because of a lack of instructors, and 10% poor management. I would seriously consider your actions before choosing to train at a premium integrated school at the moment. The timeframe they quote in the glossy brochures is fantasy. 50 or so more instructors per school would eradicate this problem.
On arrival back in the UK for the IR stage, it was slightly better. But then a load of instructors resigned, and the students kept pouring in. Instructors were used to 2-3 students each, but this soon became over 6. When I had my IRT, my instructor had 9 students. Flying once per week was the norm. Eventually the school started giving students leave after retiring from the VFR stage abroad, and starting their IR. To restrict the huge flow of students into the severely understaffed IR training department. It started as a month, and when I finished was more like 4 months. As far as I know, it could be more than that now.
If you're self-sponsored, then you're the bottom of the pile. The sponsored schemes and tagged students always have the upper hand, especially when the airlines start getting involved and make complaints. It was common for a tagged student to fly five times per week, whilst a self-sponsored would be once every 10 days.
It was a sorry state of affairs. 90% caused because of a lack of instructors, and 10% poor management. I would seriously consider your actions before choosing to train at a premium integrated school at the moment. The timeframe they quote in the glossy brochures is fantasy. 50 or so more instructors per school would eradicate this problem.
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Did this follow a well known integrated school in the Uk being taken over by a large North American corporate, reducing the name from three letter acronym to two characters ?
They seem to have a talent for driving away the people needed to actually provide training.
They seem to have a talent for driving away the people needed to actually provide training.
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