ICAO ATPL to EASA ATPL
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ICAO ATPL to EASA ATPL
I am looking at getting my EASA ATPL (not through the UKCAA) and things are not so clear. Firstly I have an ICAO ATPL with 6000TT of which 4000 are on the Beechcraft 1900D. As with most operators this has all been done operating the aircraft using multi crew SOPS approved my the relevant authorities.
Firstly, based on the experience of a colleague who has started the ATPL exams, I do not need to sit the mandatory ground school, as I hold an ATPL already. Apparently there is a simple 1 page letter available on the UK CAA website that is then sent with the exam request.
Now the very unclear part...
Whether or not EASA will see any of my B1900D (Far 23 commuter category) time as multicrew....
FCL.510.A (b)(1) - 500 hours in multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes;
There is a footnote... AMC1 FCL.510.A (b)(1) ATPL(A) — Prerequisites, experience and crediting Equivalent requirements for CS-25 and CS-23 commuter category are the JAR/FAR-25 transport category, JAR/FAR-23 commuter category, or BCAR or AIR 2051.
Now in FCL there is actually zero reference that I can see that mentions CS-25 and CS23 commuter category.
However I found this....
https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/def...202008-17b.pdf
Which I understand is/was a proposal:
FCL.510.A (b)(1) ATPL(A) - 500 hours in multi*pilot operations on aeroplanes with a type certificate issued in accordance with CS*25 or equivalent code, or CS–23 Commuter category or equivalent code;
My question is, why is there a footnote mention of CS-25 and CS 23 Comm category in the current FCL regs?
Additionally, the exact wording is ''500 hours in multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes;''. It doesn't say multi pilot operations on multi crew aeroplanes.
On the Belgian authorities website, they go on to mention here:
https://mobilit.belgium.be/sites/def...r%20pilots.pdf
''2.2.2. Comments and/or explanation a. “Multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes” means an operation requiring at least two pilots using multi-crew cooperation in either multi-pilot or single-pilot aeroplanes. Therefore the relevant experience can be built up on single-pilot aeroplanes. It must be noted that the ATPL(A) skill test shall be taken on a multi-pilot aeroplane, meaning an aeroplane certified for operation with a minimum crew of at least two pilots.''
What IS clear is that the flight test will have to be done in a multi - pilot aeroplane, that I understand,
I am trying to avoid having to spend 15 expensive hours back in pistons, to go the CPL/fATPL route first.
I would do the exams through Bristol, as colleagues with similar experience have used them and they come highly recommended.
Would appreciate input and thoughts!
Regards!
Edit: The UKCAA website is actually very clear, that I would need to go the CPL/fATPL route first, but I as I am based in Italy, I am wanting to do the exams/training either in Italy or perhaps Austria.
Firstly, based on the experience of a colleague who has started the ATPL exams, I do not need to sit the mandatory ground school, as I hold an ATPL already. Apparently there is a simple 1 page letter available on the UK CAA website that is then sent with the exam request.
Now the very unclear part...
Whether or not EASA will see any of my B1900D (Far 23 commuter category) time as multicrew....
FCL.510.A (b)(1) - 500 hours in multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes;
There is a footnote... AMC1 FCL.510.A (b)(1) ATPL(A) — Prerequisites, experience and crediting Equivalent requirements for CS-25 and CS-23 commuter category are the JAR/FAR-25 transport category, JAR/FAR-23 commuter category, or BCAR or AIR 2051.
Now in FCL there is actually zero reference that I can see that mentions CS-25 and CS23 commuter category.
However I found this....
https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/def...202008-17b.pdf
Which I understand is/was a proposal:
FCL.510.A (b)(1) ATPL(A) - 500 hours in multi*pilot operations on aeroplanes with a type certificate issued in accordance with CS*25 or equivalent code, or CS–23 Commuter category or equivalent code;
My question is, why is there a footnote mention of CS-25 and CS 23 Comm category in the current FCL regs?
Additionally, the exact wording is ''500 hours in multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes;''. It doesn't say multi pilot operations on multi crew aeroplanes.
On the Belgian authorities website, they go on to mention here:
https://mobilit.belgium.be/sites/def...r%20pilots.pdf
''2.2.2. Comments and/or explanation a. “Multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes” means an operation requiring at least two pilots using multi-crew cooperation in either multi-pilot or single-pilot aeroplanes. Therefore the relevant experience can be built up on single-pilot aeroplanes. It must be noted that the ATPL(A) skill test shall be taken on a multi-pilot aeroplane, meaning an aeroplane certified for operation with a minimum crew of at least two pilots.''
What IS clear is that the flight test will have to be done in a multi - pilot aeroplane, that I understand,
I am trying to avoid having to spend 15 expensive hours back in pistons, to go the CPL/fATPL route first.
I would do the exams through Bristol, as colleagues with similar experience have used them and they come highly recommended.
Would appreciate input and thoughts!
Regards!
Edit: The UKCAA website is actually very clear, that I would need to go the CPL/fATPL route first, but I as I am based in Italy, I am wanting to do the exams/training either in Italy or perhaps Austria.
Last edited by EladElap; 3rd Nov 2018 at 21:59.
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I am watching this thread with interest. In response to the OP's conundrum, would flying on a validation be a way to getting the relevant time on a CS25 aircraft without having to go through the process of converting to a CPL/IR on pistons? And then get your 500 hrs and then do the ATPL skills test? That assumes you have a job offer and the relevant multi-pilot rating could be added to your SA ATPL.
To the second poster Cobalt - I would question your reason for getting an EASA licence if you don't have the right to live and work in Europe. It is a very expensive and time consuming process. You will have to do an approved ground school, pass the 14 ATPL exams, then do a CPL course which based on your total time would be a min of 20 hrs according to the UK CAA, you would do an abridged IR (min 15hrs), and then the MCC course, and I think you would probably need 100hrs PIC to tick the boxes for a CPL issue so that is another 30 hrs. All of this is a very expensive exercise if your future employer doesn't require it. As a french speaker have you thought about looking at operators in West Africa? It might not be everyone's first choice place to live and work, but being fluent in French might help make up for a lack of experience and enable you use your SA (ICAO) licence and gain valuable experience.
To the second poster Cobalt - I would question your reason for getting an EASA licence if you don't have the right to live and work in Europe. It is a very expensive and time consuming process. You will have to do an approved ground school, pass the 14 ATPL exams, then do a CPL course which based on your total time would be a min of 20 hrs according to the UK CAA, you would do an abridged IR (min 15hrs), and then the MCC course, and I think you would probably need 100hrs PIC to tick the boxes for a CPL issue so that is another 30 hrs. All of this is a very expensive exercise if your future employer doesn't require it. As a french speaker have you thought about looking at operators in West Africa? It might not be everyone's first choice place to live and work, but being fluent in French might help make up for a lack of experience and enable you use your SA (ICAO) licence and gain valuable experience.
