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Hour building in Europe and logging PIC dilemma

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Hour building in Europe and logging PIC dilemma

Old 7th Oct 2018, 14:08
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Italy
Posts: 84
Hour building in Europe and logging PIC dilemma

Hi everyone,

I just want to share this trick just happened to me and ask for your experience.

I've started my hour building (after my PPL) couple days ago with a safety pilot. While we were flying at very first hours he mistakenly told me that he is logging these hours as PIC in his logbook too. AFAIK safety pilots can not log as PIC unless the aeroplane is a multipilot certified. (I don't want to mention the IR safety or logging FI hours etc.)

As he always eager to file the flight plan and wants to do it by phone and in a distance, it makes me little nervous that he is actually filing himself as PIC over the plans too.

What do you think of what are the circumstances in future it might happen? The CAA may create a problem about it or doesn't even care?
youngretired is offline  
Old 7th Oct 2018, 21:26
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Age: 42
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Why is he going with you?
rudestuff is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 04:49
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Italy
Posts: 84
I suppose the ATO does not trust pilots enough. That was in my mind to ask to fly solo btw.
youngretired is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 04:57
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Join Date: May 2018
Location: Flugplatz
Posts: 25
The worst case is that you already paid your time building upfront. In this case, I would talk to the person who sold you the package or alternatively simply pretend that I don't understand what they're doing and file a flight plan the night before. Or I'd fly without a flight plan as long as you don't cross borders or fly through an CTR. In places like Hungary, flight information nearly always asks if you have a flight plan, but they also help you if you don't have one. While talking to your time building provider, you can also mention that you would be willing to disclose their name and practice to the public (e.g. PPRuNe, Google and other relevant forums). If you have a legal insurance or the means to pay for an attorney that's also an option.

If you haven't paid for the remaining hours yet, I would definitely look for a different time building place.
flugas is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 06:17
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
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This scam has been going on for years and I do know someone that had a load of hassle due it. Luckily someone had warned him and he had copies of the tech log. Which he had signed so he got to keep the hours.

You don't get safety pilots in multicrew aircraft. Well you can get someone in the jumpseat in case something needs a seat swap but they don't get to log anything unless the they have to take over the controls.

These situations get quiet difficult get it sorted before you fly any more and get copies of the techlog which I hope you have signed.
tescoapp is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 07:59
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Italy
Posts: 84
Thank you guys a lot. I've acquired the tech book today and definitely will do that. Also by now I am sure that safety reports himself as PIC to the flight planning office. Luckily I've paid only 10 hours.
youngretired is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 16:23
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: 2500ft
Age: 19
Posts: 75
A small question about logging hours

Do PICUS hours count towards the CPL.To start a CPL course to need 100hrs as PIC.Can't they be PICUS hours(Hours flown with an instructor on board).
Tharaka737 is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2018, 21:14
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: leib
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by youngretired View Post
Thank you guys a lot. I've acquired the tech book today and definitely will do that. Also by now I am sure that safety reports himself as PIC to the flight planning office. Luckily I've paid only 10 hours.

could you tell us where is this? so nobody here goes there
turbopropmike is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2018, 05:43
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mids
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PICUS hours cannot be logged with an Instructor sitting next to you. only on the successful completion of a flight test with an examiner can it be logged.

There is a type of PIC which can be logged with an instructor on board but that's only available on integrated courses and those that can log that will be told about it.

And when a regulation stipulates PIC they won't accept any other form of PIC. If a percentage of the total can be the other forms of PIC it will say so.
tescoapp is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2018, 08:48
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Australia
Age: 43
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From EASA Part-FCL (pages 16 & 17)

https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/def...20Part-FCL.pdf

AMC1 FCL.050 Recording of flight time

(b) Logging of time: (1) PIC flight time: (i) the holder of a licence may log as PIC time all of the flight time during which he or she is the PIC; (ii) the applicant for or the holder of a pilot licence may log as PIC time all solo flight time, flight time as SPIC and flight time under supervision provided that such SPIC time and flight time under supervision are countersigned by the instructor;
PiperTyro is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2018, 10:28
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London
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FCL.050 (Recording of flight time) -- The pilot shall keep a reliable record of the details of all flights flown in a form and manner established by the competent authority.
selfin is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2018, 11:22
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: 2500ft
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Thanks everyone
Tharaka737 is offline  

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