Instrument Rating in the US

[chickencanfly]

I have UK CAA EASA PPL no night rating and got my FAA 14 CFR 61.75 license (plastic thingy) based on my UK PPL and flew in the US. I am interested in getting instrument rating in the US and have couple of questions.

1. Can I get FAA instrument rating without night rating on my UK PPL?

2. My FAA Verification letter is more than six months old. Do I need to apply for new verification from scratch before the IRA checkride? If yes,

a. Just request the UK PPL (SRG1160) verification or I need to do the FAA form as well AC-8060-71?

Thank you

[selfin]

1. Yes. A standard US instrument rating may be included in your US private pilot certificate that was issued in accordance with 14 CFR 61.75. However, unless you have received the appropriate solo endorsement, you cannot operate as pilot-in-command of a US-registered civil aircraft at night regardless of whether an instrument rating is held.

2. Yes. The Airmen Certification Branch certainly needs another form AC 8060-71. I expect UK CAA will need a new form SRG 1160 also.

[custardpsc]

Selfin, what you say about the night stuff makes perfect sense but in fact has been the subject of a somewhat unintelligble legal opinion that suggests that if it doesn't say ' no night flying' on his FAA certificate he is good to do so.

What do you make of this ?

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf

but I beg to differ on the validation. Validation is a one time deal to get the certificate issued, not a recurring requirement. Once it's issued it is as usable for a check ride entry as it is to go flying.. I can't see why you would need to reverify , its either a valid certificate or it isn't. The requirement is :

§ 61.65 Instrument rating requirements.

(a)General. A person who applies for an instrument rating must1) Hold at least a current private pilot certificate, or be concurrently applying for a private pilot certificate, with an airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift rating appropriate to the instrument rating sought;

And the DPE handbook lists the docs that the DPE needs to see as :

5-382 PROCEDURES.

A. Schedule Appointment. Advise the applicant to bring the following documents to the appointment:

1) A correctly filled out FAA Form 8710-1 application, or an FAA Form 8710-11 application if seeking a weight-shift-control aircraft or powered parachute rating, to be completed in ink or typewritten;

2) A student pilot certificate, sport pilot certificate, recreational pilot certificate, or a private pilot certificate if for an additional category/class rating at the private pilot certification level;

3) At least a third-class FAA Form 8500-9, Medical Certificate ____ Class, or FAA Form 8420-2, Student Medical Certificate, if applicable;

4) A Statement of Demonstrated Ability (SODA), if applicable;

5) A knowledge test report (if applicable);

6) An FAA-approved school graduation certificate, if applicable;

7) Personal logbooks or other acceptable records that substantiate the flight experience shown on the application form;

8) The aircraft maintenance records;

9) The aircraft airworthiness certificate;

10) The aircraft registration;

11) The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) aircraft station license, if applicable; and

12) An acceptable form of photo identification.

Although I bet some DPE do ask for the original verification letter at least.

[MarkerInbound]

From the FAA FSIMS, their inhouse guidance to be a Fed -

When the 61.75 certificate is issued it will have the following

“ISSUED ON THE BASIS OF AND VALID ONLY WHEN ACCOMPANIED BY [NAME OF COUNTRY] PILOT LICENSE NO. [NUMBER FROM FOREIGN PILOT LICENSE]. ALL LIMITATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS ON THE [NAME OF COUNTRY] PILOT LICENSE APPLY”

And further

"D. Night Restriction. Some foreign pilot licenses contain a restriction that prohibits the person from operating an aircraft at night. As an example, some foreign CAAs require their citizens to hold an instrument rating and/or a night flying privilege to operate an aircraft at night. That person must also comply with that night operating restriction of his or her foreign pilot license when exercising the privileges of the § 61.75 U.S. pilot certificate (refer to § 61.75(e)(3)). To clarify, while the FAA may not remove the night flying restriction, it is permissible for a foreign pilot who receives a U.S. pilot certificate on the basis of the person’s foreign pilot license to accomplish the required night flying training (for the appropriate grade level of U.S. pilot certificate held) from a holder of an FAA flight instructor certificate, and receive a solo endorsement to exercise night flying privileges on his or her U.S. pilot certificate."

Regarding the validity of the verification letter

"When verification is received from a foreign CAA, the applicant will receive written notification that a copy of the verification of authenticity of the foreign pilot license has been forwarded to the designated FSDO in the applicant’s request. The verification of authenticity of the foreign pilot license is valid for 6 calendar‑months."

Looking at the current 8900.2C I don't see a section 5-382. However there is a whole Section 20 which talks about issuing a 61.75 certificate. The first item in the Procedures section is "126. Procedures.

a. Applicant Arrives at the Designee’s Location. Determine whether the managing FAA office has received the verification of authenticity letter from the Airmen Certification Branch."

[selfin]

if it doesn't say ' no night flying' on his FAA certificate he is good to do so.

Not on a US-registered aircraft. The 2012 opinion to Krausz furnishes that as an example of an endorsement (a clearly defined privilege limitation) which, if made in a foreign licence, constitutes a limitation for the purpose of 14 CFR 61.75(e)(3). In any event intentionally operating as pilot-in-command at night without receiving night flight training is careless and reckless.

Validation (sic) is a one time deal ...

A valid letter used to be required before attempting a practical test when Notice 8700.15 was effective shortly after 911. Whatever the sequence, additional ratings cannot be included in a restricted foreign-based certificate without there being a valid verification of authenticity letter. Refer to 5-603 in Order 8900.1.

[custardpsc]

Selfin - I stand corrected. Thanks. I was aware of the section below, which says if you are applying for a rating on the basis of a rating on the foreign licence it has to be verified.

Added Ratings to a U.S. Pilot Certificate. If a person requests that a rating be added to his or her U.S. pilot certificate on the basis of meeting the appropriate pilot certification requirements of part 61 (i.e., the practical test and the knowledge test, if applicable), those requirements must be accomplished before the issuance of that additional rating. However, if the person requests the added rating on the basis of that rating having been added to his or her foreign pilot license, no knowledge test or practical test is required. The authenticity of the foreign license must be verified before adding the appropriate rating.

However what I had missed was in the Applicability section

Under § 61.75(c), for persons who apply for the addition of an aircraft rating to a § 61.75 U.S. pilot certificate with the notation “U.S. TEST PASSED.”

As to the night stuff, yes clearly reckless.

[B2N2]

Whats stopping you from getting the Night rating before you head off to the US for your IR?

[chickencanfly]

Thanks custardpsc; that is very helpful information. Cheers mate. Chickencanfly

[chickencanfly]

Hello B2N2, I am not in the UK now (in central america working) and it is easier for me to go to the US for training rather than go back to the UK.