MEP Rating - value of immediate test?

[Okavango]

When taking a MEIR, my understanding is that only sufficient MEP training is required (ie no MEP test or rating). It seems to me that the MEP rating would only be useful 700hrs+ as generally that's what any employer would want before you'd meet their insurance minimums. This based on the fact airlines want the MEIR alone and don't strictly need the MEP. Therefore I don't see the value in taking the test and rating, at least initially. Is that generally the case or am I getting something wrong as schools I've spoken to seem generally unsure on the matter?

[BillieBob]

Well, for a start, you need to consider that you must pass the skill test within 6 months of commencing the training and apply for the rating within 6 months of passing the test. If you exceed either 6-month period, the training and/or test is invalidated.

[banditb6]

Surely you need a valid MEP rating, to be issued with an ME(P)IR?

[rudestuff]

The is no such thing as an ME(P)IR - now you're just making stuff up!

If you mean an MEIR - there is no need to hold an MEP rating.

[banditb6]

I'm aware that it is not a MEIR Piston rating, more the point that I assumed to be able to use your MEIR (on an ME Piston aircraft), say once the licence is issued, then you would need to have a valid MEP rating.

[rudestuff]

Correct. You need to complete the MEP training before you can start the MEIR course - presumably so that you know how to fly the aircraft and can concentrate on the IR training - but there is no requirement to hold the rating.
This can lead to the peculiar situation of having the MEIR but only being allowed to use the privileges single engine.

[Hawker400]

Originally Posted by rudestuff

Correct. You need to complete the MEP training before you can start the MEIR course - presumably so that you know how to fly the aircraft and can concentrate on the IR training

This is where it gets tricky with ATOs, at least in my experience. They don't sign you off for the MEIR unless you pass a MEP. I guess because if you have the rating it's the "only" guarantee that you can actually fly a Multi engine aircraft. Only in quotes because a rating doesn't mean you can actually fly.

Is it legally required? Grey zone but not really
Is it ATO required? If they squeeze a few more bucks out of you, you bet your it is

I'm doing all this from abroad before going to EASA land so I haven't had a chance to presently argue this but every ATO said the same thing.

[BillieBob]

Surely you need a valid MEP rating, to be issued with an ME(P)IR?

Your confusion is compounded by sloppy terminology. There is no such thing as an MEIR or, even less, an ME(P)IR.

The privileges of an instrument rating depend upon the class of aeroplane in which you have demonstrated your ability. If you pass the IR skill test on an MEP aeroplane, the privileges are valid on both MEP and SEP. If, on the other hand, the initial skill test is passed in an SEP aeroplane, the privileges are valid only for SEP aeroplanes and a further skill test will be required to extend the privileges to MEP aeroplanes.

Subsequently, IR privileges will depend upon the class of aeroplane in which you passed your last proficiency check. A proficiency check passed in a MEP aeroplane will give IR privileges in both MEP and SEP whereas a proficiency check passed in an SEP aeroplane will give privileges only in SEP.

Clearly, for maximum flexibility, it is preferable to take the initial IR skill test in an MEP to obtain privileges for both classes, in which case the MEP training must be completed. However, if it is anticipated that the privileges will initially be exercised only in SEP aeroplanes, there is no point in taking the MEP skill test and the Aircrew Regulation does not require you to do so. It is unfortunate that so many ATOs do not understand the Regulation in this area (as well as others).

[Okavango]

Thanks all and in particular Billiebob - it looks like the 6 month window is the issue. You'd think it would be training as deemed necessary if you were to come back to the test in future though I won't test the issue!


One other area of note - the CAA state a flight training course that includes at least 2 hours and 30 minutes of dual flight instruction under normal conditions of multi-engine aeroplane operations, and not less than 3 hours 30 minutes of dual flight instruction in engine failure procedures and asymmetric flight techniques.


Is the 'flight instruction' mandatory to be in a/c or can some of the 6hrs be done in a sim? I'd have thought there's some benefit of running through the engine failure procedures in particular in a sim? As FTO's seem to price for 6 hours MEP across the board I assume this isn't worth exploration but any advice appreciated.