How much should I set aside for an MCCJOC?

[jaydotbe]

Hi there,
I'm currently doing my PPLs in uni studying for an Air Transport Degree and by the end (mid-2020) I should have my fATPL

I'm currently looking for a loan for this August (post ppl) to commence my training for ATPLs and so on, and I have quotes from the likes of FTA, L3, CAE, BCFT.

With the changing regulations from EASA and recommendations from airlines, how much should I set aside for an MCCJOC?

KURA is about £9000?

[redsnail]

May I clarify that you'll have done your ATPL theory whilst doing your Air Transport Degree?
If so, then you are aware of the time line from finishing those exams to their expiry?

Then, in all honesty, there's no point in doing an integrated course, esp if you already will have a PPL.... Unless you can get a huge discount but I doubt it, they are after all, a business.

price is reasonably accurate. Check out what the HCoAP are doing too.
https://www.airpilots.org/career-mat...ings-alliance/

[jaydotbe]

Originally Posted by redsnail

May I clarify that you'll have done your ATPL theory whilst doing your Air Transport Degree?
If so, then you are aware of the time line from finishing those exams to their expiry?

Then, in all honesty, there's no point in doing an integrated course, esp if you already will have a PPL.... Unless you can get a huge discount but I doubt it, they are after all, a business...

Yep, I would have finished my ATPLs by March 2019, I'm planning to do it all with Booker Aviation,a competency based IR. They've quoted 54K without the MCCJOC which I'd have to find elsewhere

[button push ignored]

Are you at New Bucks University?
What do you think of the program?

If I were you I’d finish off my PPL at Booker, then I’d go to America and hour build.
I’d recommend an instrument rating as well.
Then I’d go to Stapleford Flight Center.
Look at the SFC web site. It lists all the requirements to complete the course.
It shouldn’t cost you more than £20,000.

[jaydotbe]

Originally Posted by button push ignored

Are you at New Bucks University?
What do you think of the program?

If I were you I’d finish off my PPL at Booker, then I’d go to America and hour build......
I’d go to Stapleford Flight Center

I think that the university program is worth it in my opinion, although there is a mixed opinion with the students. You can tell which students have been forced by their parents for the sake of having a degree but I think the airline management modules etc do truly make you an avaitor. Obviously not everyone's cup of tea though. Bucks newuni is the second worst uni in the UK by uni rankings but that's not because of the air transport degree, rather nursing, social sciences etc etc. Kingston uni do a similar degree but it's engineering / maths focused where I'm doing an economical/management focused degree.

As for hour building in USA, I'm not so sure, it's just a preference of mine to stay in the UK - booker is close to me so I can commute and the competency based IR depends on doing your hour building with them so they can assess you through it if I recall correctly.

[button push ignored]

Originally Posted by jaydotbe

I think that the university program is worth it in my opinion, although there is a mixed opinion with the students. You can tell which students have been forced by their parents for the sake of having a degree but I think the airline management modules etc do truly make you an avaitor. Obviously not everyone's cup of tea though. Bucks newuni is the second worst uni in the UK by uni rankings but that's not because of the air transport degree, rather nursing, social sciences etc etc. Kingston uni do a similar degree but it's engineering / maths focused where I'm doing an economical/management focused degree.

As for hour building in USA, I'm not so sure, it's just a preference of mine to stay in the UK - booker is close to me so I can commute and the competency based IR depends on doing your hour building with them so they can assess you through it if I recall correctly.

I did my PPL at Booker in the 1970s at the British Airways Flying Club.
It took me 18 months to get a PPL and 115 flying hours.
I would listen to the assistant flight instructors talking as they looked up at 300 feet overcast.
Comparing notes on last week’s tally.
Three point two hours, to the next ones five point one.
It looked to me that they were wasting the best years of there lives.
I knew I had to break away.

A fellow British Airways engineer had a Cessna 150 that he kept in Miami.
He’d rent it out to other engineers to hour build.
I found it far more fun, productive and cheaper to fly to America than stay in the U.K.

Personally I loved it.
Something about landing at as many airports in a day as you can for free.
But hey, if freedom isn’t your thing.

The written exams were a huge struggle for me.
I barely scraped by.

But Thurston Aviation at Stansted saw me straight.

Eric still hangs out at Stapleford I understand.
Real down home honest good people in my opinion.

Back then places like Poland wern’t an option, unless you defected.
So I had to go the cheapest UK route.

I did it by working as an aircraft engineer, and as a motorcycle dispatch rider.
Nobody would have loaned me anything anyway.
As my prospects and credit wern't good.

And you know what?
It didn’t make a hill of beans difference where I went.

[jaydotbe]

Originally Posted by button push ignored

I did my PPL at Booker in the 1970s at the British Airways Flying Club.
It took me 18 months to get a PPL and 115 flying hours.
I would listen to the assistant flight instructors talking as they looked up at 300 feet overcast.....

I'd like to believe Booker has drastically improved since then. From what a can see on PPRuNe, they are a respected outfit.
As for comparing Kingston and Bucks, both degrees give you the ATPL but as for the uni stuff, completely different; they're not interchangeable so in that sense, they can't really be compared but I appreciate the reluctance potential students would feel about enrolling into a uni that's #126/127.

Regarding Stapleford, how have you plucked £20k out of the sky? The costs I've tallied up are the normal £60Kish

The likes of Flying Academy etc in the US really do seem convincing. I'll be going to Pilot Careers Live the April, hopefully, some of the American schools will be there to possibly convince me to do my building there.

[jaydotbe]

Originally Posted by keeflyer

He is talking about the CPL ME IR cost. However when you add in the cost of skills test, approaches, landing away, I think it comes to more than 20k.

Oh I see, thanks. Yes I agree, Booker has their [fully inclusive price] of around £25k, and to be honest a lot of my decision on where I'm going to study next year has depended on the transparency of such pricing. The likes of FTA give me a different number each time.

Any saving regarding most schools in the UK would be negated because of the fact I would have to rent accommodation

[button push ignored]

I have absolutely nothing against Flying Time at Shoreham.
As I also have a great deal of respect for Bournemouth Commercial at Hurn.
I’m sure Airways at Booker is great too.

But since we are from the same neck of the woods.
Don’t forget to include Stapleford in your decision making.

There are plenty of positives to consider by going there.
No landing fees at home base as they own the airport.
It’s close to Rochford for approaches.
Housing is on site.

But since Booker is close to you.
I’d likely make it my first choice too.

I’d stay away from either outfit at Oxford.
I don’t think Southampton will give you much credit for your PPL, off their ridiculously priced white tail program.

You don’t need a school in America.
Just a plane to rent for 100 (certified) hours.
If you go to a school, get an instrument rating.
It will make your IR that much cheaper.

[jaydotbe]

Originally Posted by button push ignored

I have absolutely nothing against Flying Time at Shoreham.
As I also have a great deal of respect for Bournemouth Commercial at Hurn.
I’m sure Airways at Booker is great too.

But since we are from the same neck of the woods.
Don’t forget to include Stapleford in your decision making.

There are plenty of positives to consider by going there.
No landing fees at home base as they own the airport.
It’s close to Rochford for approaches.
Housing is on site.

But since Booker is close to you.
I’d likely make it my first choice too.

I’d stay away from either outfit at Oxford.
I don’t think Southampton won’t give you much credit off their ridiculous priced white tail program.

You don’t need a school in America.
Just a plane to rent for 100 (certified) hours.
If you go to a school, get an instrument rating.
It will make your IR that much cheaper.

Me also, I was definitely impressed with FTA upon my visit and I know of people going to commence training there who'll undoubtedly succeed, just personally I didn't think it was for me.

You're right, I'll give Stapleford an insight but I've enjoyed doing my PPLs so far with Booker and their FNPT II taster lessons they've given me have convinced me they can deliver the goods if I continue with them.
-
The main question of my thread though is after Booker, Stapleford etc, how much should I set aside for an MCCJOC? The likes of Stapleford do it for £2500, Kura for £9000. Why is there such a discrepancy?

[button push ignored]

Originally Posted by jaydotbe

-
The main question of my thread though is after Booker, Stapleford etc, how much should I set aside for an MCCJOC? The likes of Stapleford do it for £2500, Kura for £9000. Why is there such a discrepancy?

I certainly don’t claim to know.
But the way I see things happen is.

Because with Kura you’ll be more likely to get a job at BA City Flyer.
From Stapleford your more likely to end up at FlyBE.

[jaydotbe]

Originally Posted by button push ignored

I certainly don’t claim to know.
But the way I see things happen is.

Because with Kura you’ll be more likely to get a job at BA City Flyer.
From Stapleford your more likely to end up at FlyBE.

I guess it's a question I'll have to ask them in 2 years time after my dissertation, I'm assuming the prices will increase with UPRT becoming compulsory soon, probably even with FTOs who were delivering it anyways

[Capt Pit Bull]

Originally Posted by jaydotbe

-
The main question of my thread though is after Booker, Stapleford etc, how much should I set aside for an MCCJOC? The likes of Stapleford do it for £2500, Kura for £9000. Why is there such a discrepancy?

The equipment and the level of support.

Ask the providers what else is provided beyond the bare bones MCC course.

You should also be aware that the APS requirement is imminent and, once available (any day now) doing a non APS MCC course will arguably be poor value. I anticipate the 'bargain basement' MCC will become a route far less often travelled.

[Due disclaimer - I am a contract instructor at some ATOs towards the top end. So I would say that wouldn't I!]

[jaydotbe]

Originally Posted by Capt Pit Bull

Ask the providers what else is provided beyond the bare bones MCC course.

You should also be aware that the APS requirement is imminent and, once available (any day now) doing a non APS MCC course will arguably be poor value. I anticipate the 'bargain basement' MCC will become a route far less often travelled.

Very interesting, thanks for your input. I've got over the myth that Airlines don't go "huh?" and disregard the smaller ATOs modular pilots may train at but do you think they may act like that towards MCCJOC providers?

In other words, is the MCCJOC merely a tick box exercise or otherwise?

I've heard the likes of FTA say they don't include a JOC in their costs because airlines basically do that in their type rating?

[AndyDRHuddleston]

I know of a new start up in Gatwick that do an MCCJOC course, called Jet Masterclass. They have a brand new 737NG device and I believe they were about £4k plus VAT as an intro price.

[jaydotbe]

Originally Posted by AndyDRHuddleston

I know of a new start up in Gatwick that do an MCCJOC course, called Jet Masterclass. They have a brand new 737NG device and I believe they were about £4k plus VAT as an intro price.

Just had a quick look, sounds promising! I'm not looking to commence an MCCJOC or APSMCC rather till 2020 so hopefully if they stand the test of time, they'll be a viable option