Should Old Pilots Retire?
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Should Old Pilots Retire?
Due to the recent downturn in the aviation industry and the shortage of jobs for young qualified pilots should old pilots hang up their wings and retire?
I don’t mean remove all the experienced captains nor do I mean to be age racist but I am expressly talking about pilots who have flown their careers with a major airline (BA for example) and then due to company specific age regulations are forced to take retirement and their hefty pension that comes with it. But instead of putting up their feet and getting green fingers they go and take a right hand seat (Virgin for example) to while away the time or to escape the nagging wife!
These RHS jobs they take are usually at below industry wages as the pilots are not interested in the money! This negative cycle helps these companies 3 fold, they don’t need to recruit, they can offer low wages and they require the minimum fringe benefits. Surely if this pilot pool was removed it would force certain companies to actively recruit, allow self-improver ATPL holders who are young with their lives ahead of them a chance to earn a decent lifetime wage?
I don’t mean remove all the experienced captains nor do I mean to be age racist but I am expressly talking about pilots who have flown their careers with a major airline (BA for example) and then due to company specific age regulations are forced to take retirement and their hefty pension that comes with it. But instead of putting up their feet and getting green fingers they go and take a right hand seat (Virgin for example) to while away the time or to escape the nagging wife!
These RHS jobs they take are usually at below industry wages as the pilots are not interested in the money! This negative cycle helps these companies 3 fold, they don’t need to recruit, they can offer low wages and they require the minimum fringe benefits. Surely if this pilot pool was removed it would force certain companies to actively recruit, allow self-improver ATPL holders who are young with their lives ahead of them a chance to earn a decent lifetime wage?
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No Tug, they shouldn't.
Airlines are out to make money. If they can have a super-experienced ex-commander in the right seat for the same money as a 509'er it makes perfect sense to do it.
As for the pilots, if they fly their whole careers, get a fat retirement package and haven't lost the taste for it then more power to 'em. They were wannabes once, they waited their turn and paid their dues so neither you nor I nor any other snot nose have the right to tell them what they should or shouldn't do. One day, if we're very lucky, we'll get to be in the same position and I for one won't have any time for wannabes telling me to wind up my career before I'm good and ready.
Airlines are out to make money. If they can have a super-experienced ex-commander in the right seat for the same money as a 509'er it makes perfect sense to do it.
As for the pilots, if they fly their whole careers, get a fat retirement package and haven't lost the taste for it then more power to 'em. They were wannabes once, they waited their turn and paid their dues so neither you nor I nor any other snot nose have the right to tell them what they should or shouldn't do. One day, if we're very lucky, we'll get to be in the same position and I for one won't have any time for wannabes telling me to wind up my career before I'm good and ready.
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The reason that most of these ex-BA and virgin guys are still flying is they need the money to pay for the three ex-wifes and kids........most of then would have liked to put there feet up long ago.
Be warned that when you get into a lift with cabin crew the perfume that you smell is called divorce !.
Be warned that when you get into a lift with cabin crew the perfume that you smell is called divorce !.
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A and C,
neither of my previous wives left me because of any nefarious activity on my part (there was none), but neither could cope with the aviation lifestyle. The bill's the same, whichever way you look at it.
As for retiring to allow a young person to have my job: no way! I'm 45, I have a pension from the RAF and I could, at a push, live without my airline job. But I didn't go through all that training (still ongoing) to give up just when it's all coming together.
The statutory retirement age in this country (UK) is 65. That's likely to rise as the average person's longevity increases and we discover that we can't afford to pay people to sit on their arses for 25 or more years. I intend to have a comfortable retirement, and my children will, I hope, have the opportunity to go to university. I'm not giving up work for you. The fact that you can't get a job in aviation at the moment is not my fault. Wait your turn.
neither of my previous wives left me because of any nefarious activity on my part (there was none), but neither could cope with the aviation lifestyle. The bill's the same, whichever way you look at it.
As for retiring to allow a young person to have my job: no way! I'm 45, I have a pension from the RAF and I could, at a push, live without my airline job. But I didn't go through all that training (still ongoing) to give up just when it's all coming together.
The statutory retirement age in this country (UK) is 65. That's likely to rise as the average person's longevity increases and we discover that we can't afford to pay people to sit on their arses for 25 or more years. I intend to have a comfortable retirement, and my children will, I hope, have the opportunity to go to university. I'm not giving up work for you. The fact that you can't get a job in aviation at the moment is not my fault. Wait your turn.
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Because quite often (but not always) the guys who go on to do the easyjet or Go jobs are not the ones with the hefty pensions but the ones who need it because they have only been in BA half the time due to RAF service/commuter jobs etc.
Would you deny somebody the right to fly when they really want to do it, and with the experience are saving on training for the company?
Would you deny somebody the right to fly when they really want to do it, and with the experience are saving on training for the company?
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Scroggs you seem to have got quite a snot on with me ,the last posting by me was based on observation that i have made over the last ten years in aviation.
As for you giving up your job i never sujested that and dont want it as i have a perfectly good job myself.
As for you giving up your job i never sujested that and dont want it as i have a perfectly good job myself.
Perhaps if certain airlines and countries reviewed their restrictions on Commanders aged 55+, things might be slightly less heated?
I can understand the frustration of a newcomer who sees traditional FO seats being taken by ex-commanders; however, why did the airline require them to give up their commander status in the first place? If there was (and I'm NOT suggesting there should be) a mandatory retirement age of 60 from flying commercial air transport aircraft, then commanders could stay in command and newcomers could more readily fill the FO seats. No doubt the unions would have a strong view and there would, ipso facto, be a longer wait for command in the first place?
I can understand the frustration of a newcomer who sees traditional FO seats being taken by ex-commanders; however, why did the airline require them to give up their commander status in the first place? If there was (and I'm NOT suggesting there should be) a mandatory retirement age of 60 from flying commercial air transport aircraft, then commanders could stay in command and newcomers could more readily fill the FO seats. No doubt the unions would have a strong view and there would, ipso facto, be a longer wait for command in the first place?
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Posted by A & C
Couldn't agree more. Aids stands for Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome
It does seem that Scroggs has a hard on for you, I've flown with people whose A/I gyro seems to have tumbled, (have a bad attitude)!
The reason that most of these ex-BA and virgin guys are still flying is they need the money to pay for the three ex-wifes and kids........most of then would have liked to put there feet up long ago.
Be warned that when you get into a lift with cabin crew the perfume that you smell is called divorce !.
Be warned that when you get into a lift with cabin crew the perfume that you smell is called divorce !.
It does seem that Scroggs has a hard on for you, I've flown with people whose A/I gyro seems to have tumbled, (have a bad attitude)!
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LCdeC
my gripe wasn't with AnC's jibe about thrice-married ex-BA/Virgin folk, but I did want to make the point that extra-marital dalliances are not the only cause of relationships self-destructing, and divorce happens outside the airlines too!
Anyway, my objections were to the suggestion (not AnC's) that young pilots have more right to a job than us older chaps. No way, peeps. I (and my employer) will bet my experience against your enthusiasm any day!
my gripe wasn't with AnC's jibe about thrice-married ex-BA/Virgin folk, but I did want to make the point that extra-marital dalliances are not the only cause of relationships self-destructing, and divorce happens outside the airlines too!
Anyway, my objections were to the suggestion (not AnC's) that young pilots have more right to a job than us older chaps. No way, peeps. I (and my employer) will bet my experience against your enthusiasm any day!
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My cousin is married to a BA captain retired at 55 and hasnt flown in the last year - he isn't missing it either - many do jack it in
to enjoy a goods night sleep and to
re-establish their marriages...
to enjoy a goods night sleep and to
re-establish their marriages...
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Most UK airlines operate a policy of maximum age for command of 60, and maximum pilot age of 65. BA currently stick with a 55 maximum for both, though there have been suggestions that they might increase this. The 60 year command restriction is due to the French who, I believe against the EU's ruling on the matter, insist that no aircraft will transit their airspace with a commander of greater than 60 years of age.
