Financing The Training
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Cornwall, UK
For British citizens, I don't think there are any other specific pilot loan providers.
For Modular training, you can get an unsecured £30,000 loan with 2.3% APR from Nationwide and several other banks offer similar loans. Depending on your background you could get them. You can also remortgage if you have a house or try and ask family members for money.
There is a very helpful page by the Wings Alliance on financing pilot training, maybe take a look at it: https://www.wingsalliance.eu/training/finance/
I am definitely not a financial advisor and everything I've said is based off a google search, for more advice and specific details, you are better off seeing a financial advisor or your bank for advice.
For Modular training, you can get an unsecured £30,000 loan with 2.3% APR from Nationwide and several other banks offer similar loans. Depending on your background you could get them. You can also remortgage if you have a house or try and ask family members for money.
There is a very helpful page by the Wings Alliance on financing pilot training, maybe take a look at it: https://www.wingsalliance.eu/training/finance/
I am definitely not a financial advisor and everything I've said is based off a google search, for more advice and specific details, you are better off seeing a financial advisor or your bank for advice.
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
From: Glasgow
BBVA essentially just offer secured loan like many other high street banks do, with a few nice perks e.g. up to 24 months payment holiday so you don't make payments while training and then up to a further 24 months reduced payments.
The highest unsecured loan I have seen is £50k with First Direct but I don't know how feasible actually getting that loan may actually be lol especially for flight training!
As the other replies have suggested, modular seems to be the only option unless you have the security.
For me it's a self funded PPL, then I'll build up time going flying trips and enjoying flying. After that I will consider taking the biggest unsecured loan out there to do the ATPL ground school, then a CPLMEIR course, some good options going for about £20k.
Thing is, depending on income that could all take a while, it also doesn't account for any extra hours needed/living costs/MCC/JOC/type rating etc etc etc.
Good luck with whatever you end up doing.
The highest unsecured loan I have seen is £50k with First Direct but I don't know how feasible actually getting that loan may actually be lol especially for flight training!
As the other replies have suggested, modular seems to be the only option unless you have the security.
For me it's a self funded PPL, then I'll build up time going flying trips and enjoying flying. After that I will consider taking the biggest unsecured loan out there to do the ATPL ground school, then a CPLMEIR course, some good options going for about £20k.
Thing is, depending on income that could all take a while, it also doesn't account for any extra hours needed/living costs/MCC/JOC/type rating etc etc etc.
Good luck with whatever you end up doing.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
From: Lancashire
Can anyone tell me:
My parent's have agreed to act as a guarantor for a large loan, however, will not put the house up as collateral. Are there any loan providers that would do this, as in, lend me in excess of £50k with parents as guarantors.
My parent's have agreed to act as a guarantor for a large loan, however, will not put the house up as collateral. Are there any loan providers that would do this, as in, lend me in excess of £50k with parents as guarantors.
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
No. The largest unsecured loan available on the high street is £50k, repayment is over 7/8 years with payments of around £700 a month starting immediately.
Larger loan products are available but only as secured lending - which is done using housing/property.
There are no large loan products that let you borrow a large sum of money just with a guarantor. The lender will want a cast iron guarantee they'll get their money back which is why it's secured on a home.
My question to you is, if you are taking out a large loan product how are you going to pay for it each month? My next question would be, if you can afford payments of £700+ a month from day 1 then why not spend that money on training directly instead of taking a loan?
Larger loan products are available but only as secured lending - which is done using housing/property.
There are no large loan products that let you borrow a large sum of money just with a guarantor. The lender will want a cast iron guarantee they'll get their money back which is why it's secured on a home.
My question to you is, if you are taking out a large loan product how are you going to pay for it each month? My next question would be, if you can afford payments of £700+ a month from day 1 then why not spend that money on training directly instead of taking a loan?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Regarding loans from BBVA, I believe that they are one of the only banks in the UK allowing loans for training. They are going to stop offering loans on the 13th of November 2017, I know this as I recently just handed in my application for a guaranteed loan against my parents' house. And for BBVA, I think you need to do training through either OAA or L3.
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
From: N/A
The ONLY time you should borrow money is once you have a PPL and 150+ hours and all 14 written exams passed. To get to that point, you should try a thing called ‘work’. It won’t hurt you. Remember all that’s doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger.
To get a CPL-ME-IR should cost somewhere south of £25,000. This is a manageable amount of debt. You would be hard pressed to get it all done from zero to (f)ATPL for £50,000 including living expenses, so borrowing that amount won’t help you. Wouldn’t you hate to run out of money towards the end? Plus you’ll need to have some money left over for a MCC/JOC.
OAA/L3 is for a different crowd. It’s alright if you can’t afford it. Your not missing anything that you can’t find elsewhere cheaper.
As Dring’s parents very well may find out once BBVA forecloses on their house.
What is one of the Ten Commandments?
Honor you mother and your father!
A fine way to do that, by kicking them to the kerb.
To get a CPL-ME-IR should cost somewhere south of £25,000. This is a manageable amount of debt. You would be hard pressed to get it all done from zero to (f)ATPL for £50,000 including living expenses, so borrowing that amount won’t help you. Wouldn’t you hate to run out of money towards the end? Plus you’ll need to have some money left over for a MCC/JOC.
OAA/L3 is for a different crowd. It’s alright if you can’t afford it. Your not missing anything that you can’t find elsewhere cheaper.
As Dring’s parents very well may find out once BBVA forecloses on their house.
What is one of the Ten Commandments?
Honor you mother and your father!
A fine way to do that, by kicking them to the kerb.
Last edited by button push ignored; 5th November 2017 at 01:38.
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,973
Likes: 326
From: Hong Kong
Getting a 50k loan is tricky if not impossible, but with decent credit, a 10k loan is quite easy to get. Take out 5 of those on the same day (before the CRAs update) and there's your 50k...
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
From: N/A
Taking out five loans under false pretenses would be credit fraud, which is illegal.
Great start to a career, “Have you ever been charged with a crime?”
So lets say you do take out five, ten thousand loans before you start training.
You now have £50,000 of somebody else’s money.
Which you now have to start paying the back the next day.
This all eats into the principle.
You’ll be paying the bank back with their own money, whilst you sit and stew in ground school.
Lets say your doing it the ‘Big 3’ school route.
After six months of ground school, with housing, expenses and interest. Your 50 grand, is now down to the low 40s.
Now your off for your PPL, and you are now at 30.
Hour building will cost you another 10 to 15.
Leaving you with 15 to 20 to finish up.
Think about it for a second.
I don't think it can be done.
You are now royally screwed.
Up
creek without a paddle, to coin a phrase.
No money, no credit, and a bank loan that just won't quit.
I can hear you all say that the school in What-cha-mcall-itis-stan says their program is €39,995.
If you believe that, then the world is going to roll you.
Now if you'd only taken your sweet time and done things correctly.
You'd have all your prerequisites completed before ever borrowing any money.
In case you weren’t listening they are PPL and 150+ hours and all 14 written exams passed.
Then its one simple loan, which you can start paying back with your first flying job.
All honest work is honorable work.
How many times do I have to keep saying this.
It seems like I'm banging my head against the wall here.
Some other seasoned veterans of this business are going to have to chime in.
I can't carry the voice of reason all by myself.
Great start to a career, “Have you ever been charged with a crime?”
So lets say you do take out five, ten thousand loans before you start training.
You now have £50,000 of somebody else’s money.
Which you now have to start paying the back the next day.
This all eats into the principle.
You’ll be paying the bank back with their own money, whilst you sit and stew in ground school.
Lets say your doing it the ‘Big 3’ school route.
After six months of ground school, with housing, expenses and interest. Your 50 grand, is now down to the low 40s.
Now your off for your PPL, and you are now at 30.
Hour building will cost you another 10 to 15.
Leaving you with 15 to 20 to finish up.
Think about it for a second.
I don't think it can be done.
You are now royally screwed.
Up
creek without a paddle, to coin a phrase.No money, no credit, and a bank loan that just won't quit.
I can hear you all say that the school in What-cha-mcall-itis-stan says their program is €39,995.
If you believe that, then the world is going to roll you.
Now if you'd only taken your sweet time and done things correctly.
You'd have all your prerequisites completed before ever borrowing any money.
In case you weren’t listening they are PPL and 150+ hours and all 14 written exams passed.
Then its one simple loan, which you can start paying back with your first flying job.
All honest work is honorable work.
How many times do I have to keep saying this.
It seems like I'm banging my head against the wall here.
Some other seasoned veterans of this business are going to have to chime in.
I can't carry the voice of reason all by myself.
Last edited by button push ignored; 6th November 2017 at 02:10.
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,973
Likes: 326
From: Hong Kong
I certainly would agree with the post above, only think about borrowing money for the final push - after PPL, ATPLs and preferably hour building. My previous post was in response to a specific question.
Joined: Apr 2012
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 400
Likes: 18
From: UK
Hours building is where gliding experience can, I believe, come in handy. Having such experience makes you much more attractive to a club who is in need of a tug pilot, if you're a member of a club you can put yourself forward. I've seen a couple of people gain a couple of hundred hours towing before going for their CPL/ME/IR. The only thing is that it isn't "structured" hours building.
Would probably take between £10k-£20k off the cost of a licence which, if you're doing modular, is a fair bit.
Would probably take between £10k-£20k off the cost of a licence which, if you're doing modular, is a fair bit.
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,973
Likes: 326
From: Hong Kong
'Structured' just means that you've made the best use of the time: cross country/night/simulated IMC etc. It's helpful, but not the be-all and end-all. You'll still have a full course to polish you up. Nothing beats free hours!
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
From: N/A
Let us keep the subject on ‘Financing The Training’.
I don’t care where you get your PPL at. It can be in any country. But to make things simple, I would get a PPL in the country where I was going to do my hour building in. If you have strong ties to any one country with a job and family and a house, then you are forced to stay put. In that case free glider tug hours may be one of the better ways forward. But personally I found hanging out all day at Lasham to get some time in Super Cub G-ATRG to be a waste of my time.
But if your a free spirit, then I can’t think of a better place than the United States. A UK PPL will need a night rating to be transferred to a US PPL. The TSA makes training in America somewhat problematic. Canada is far less hassle. Usually it’s more expensive, but at present due to the high US Dollar against the low Canadian Dollar the US advantage is not so great. But that could change, so beware.
Hour building in the US is great fun. But it’s best to use you time wisely. I’m quite happy just bean bonking around as many airports in a day as I can do. But your supposed to be training and learning, not just goofing around. So make your training routes preplanned and challenging. You should spend many hours on vfrmaps.com going over you planned routes for your odyssey.
You don’t have to do all your hour building in one go. You can break it up into sections and do your ATPL written exams in between. I did mine in three sessions. I would have gone stir crazy doing all the exams at the same time. The flying part is what kept me sane and drove me on. Hour building whilst doing home study is the best and cheapest way.
Then, and only then, are you ready to borrow money for a CPL - IR - ME. You should be able to get it done for around £20,000.
If you need a recommendation try Stapleford Flight Center. If anybody knows Eric Thruston please tell him that a grateful student thanks him.
I don’t care where you get your PPL at. It can be in any country. But to make things simple, I would get a PPL in the country where I was going to do my hour building in. If you have strong ties to any one country with a job and family and a house, then you are forced to stay put. In that case free glider tug hours may be one of the better ways forward. But personally I found hanging out all day at Lasham to get some time in Super Cub G-ATRG to be a waste of my time.
But if your a free spirit, then I can’t think of a better place than the United States. A UK PPL will need a night rating to be transferred to a US PPL. The TSA makes training in America somewhat problematic. Canada is far less hassle. Usually it’s more expensive, but at present due to the high US Dollar against the low Canadian Dollar the US advantage is not so great. But that could change, so beware.
Hour building in the US is great fun. But it’s best to use you time wisely. I’m quite happy just bean bonking around as many airports in a day as I can do. But your supposed to be training and learning, not just goofing around. So make your training routes preplanned and challenging. You should spend many hours on vfrmaps.com going over you planned routes for your odyssey.
You don’t have to do all your hour building in one go. You can break it up into sections and do your ATPL written exams in between. I did mine in three sessions. I would have gone stir crazy doing all the exams at the same time. The flying part is what kept me sane and drove me on. Hour building whilst doing home study is the best and cheapest way.
Then, and only then, are you ready to borrow money for a CPL - IR - ME. You should be able to get it done for around £20,000.
If you need a recommendation try Stapleford Flight Center. If anybody knows Eric Thruston please tell him that a grateful student thanks him.
Last edited by button push ignored; 6th November 2017 at 14:42.
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
From: UK
How rude. Could you have made your point without being personal?
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 1,846
Likes: 4
From: Bristol, England
Interestingly, TUI in Belgium have just started the only 'taking pilots off the street' route I have heard of in recent years. They hire applicants untrained, on completion of selection, pay for all the training, then keep them on a cadet salary for a while to recover the cost. They have taken this path because they were unhappy with the quality of pilots being fed to them by certain big schools.
Its an attractive plan, and I'm sure massively oversubscribed. The really interesting bit was that they stood up at a conference in Berlin last week and said "...and now we know what flying training costs, its 55,000 euros, including type rating". Anything else is profit.
There's a massive and obvious issue here. Companies-who-shall-not-be named are producing a generation of pilots in debt, purely to line their own pockets. And not a small, respectable, 'everyone has to make a living' profit, this is obscene. €130K is 'remortgage mum's house' money.
Its an attractive plan, and I'm sure massively oversubscribed. The really interesting bit was that they stood up at a conference in Berlin last week and said "...and now we know what flying training costs, its 55,000 euros, including type rating". Anything else is profit.
There's a massive and obvious issue here. Companies-who-shall-not-be named are producing a generation of pilots in debt, purely to line their own pockets. And not a small, respectable, 'everyone has to make a living' profit, this is obscene. €130K is 'remortgage mum's house' money.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,330
Likes: 74
From: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
"They have taken this path because they were unhappy with the quality of pilots being fed to them by certain big schools."
That's interesting in itself - about the time Air Europe went down there was a move not to take self-improvers but only to take graduates from major schools - of course, that was when they were doing the job properly (i.e. we didn't need KSA 100), and you had to book four years ahead. How the circle comes round!
That's interesting in itself - about the time Air Europe went down there was a move not to take self-improvers but only to take graduates from major schools - of course, that was when they were doing the job properly (i.e. we didn't need KSA 100), and you had to book four years ahead. How the circle comes round!
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: UK