A Jumbo pilot at 20 - Daily Mail July 12th
Joined: Nov 2000
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Is the 21 age reference pertaining to the fact that JAR FCL 1 states that you have to be that age before applying for an ATPL (A). Then to command a 747 you must have an ATPL. If this is correct then the story has some substance.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: UK
True Eng, but its the fact that the Mail spent half a page covering this non-story!
Headline made out this whizz kid is piloting jumbos, but hes fresh out of a modular class and looking for work like the rest of us.
Headline made out this whizz kid is piloting jumbos, but hes fresh out of a modular class and looking for work like the rest of us.
Plastic PPRuNer
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From: Rochechouart, France
GearUp CheerUp - "....when I read an article about something which I know very little (politics, nuclear power plant safety, congestion charges in London etc) is the story equally way off the mark?"
Yes, almost always.
Yes, almost always.
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: uk
Why not be happy for the guy. So the press made something out of it. He got in the newspaper. Some airline may see the advert and give him a call. No need to slate the guy.
As everyone knows it's not easy to get a Fzn ATPL. Doing it at a young age could be a disadvantage and make it slightly harder, if he's had no experience of really working hard (i.e. at Uni). I should know. I finished my course 4 weeks ago... at the young and impressionable age of 19!!
As everyone knows it's not easy to get a Fzn ATPL. Doing it at a young age could be a disadvantage and make it slightly harder, if he's had no experience of really working hard (i.e. at Uni). I should know. I finished my course 4 weeks ago... at the young and impressionable age of 19!!
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Mostly Western hemisphere
Anybody from the US Air Force here ? 'Guess not, but nice try anyway.
I wish somebody could tell us more on how fast their pilots get their wings and jump into the left seat of wonderjets like the B-52, B-2, KC-10, KC-135, etc. (not to mention fighter planes). If you could read what I heard a few years ago, your eyes will pop out. I was really amazed, and their accident rate is not significantly higher than in the civil world. Yeah, sometimes they try a 2-ADF approach when theres' not even a single ADF on board, but who doesn't ?
It's all a question of training and exposure to difficult situations. How fast somebody will learn is another story of course. As long as the ego stays quiet things should remain pretty much safe.
I wish somebody could tell us more on how fast their pilots get their wings and jump into the left seat of wonderjets like the B-52, B-2, KC-10, KC-135, etc. (not to mention fighter planes). If you could read what I heard a few years ago, your eyes will pop out. I was really amazed, and their accident rate is not significantly higher than in the civil world. Yeah, sometimes they try a 2-ADF approach when theres' not even a single ADF on board, but who doesn't ?
It's all a question of training and exposure to difficult situations. How fast somebody will learn is another story of course. As long as the ego stays quiet things should remain pretty much safe.
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Blighty
Young pilots with low hours are not just the preserve of the USAF. in the RAF where command comes with performance and not seniority, my aircraft type (4 engine jet) had 3 pilots get command at about the 1000hrs total mark. And very good they were too.
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Red Feather Club
Yeah saw the story during our turnaround in Brussels, yes it was OTT as it makes a bit of a mockery of the rest of you guys/girls out there in the same position
My first impressions at quickly glancing at the article (quick turnaround!) was that it gave the impression that the industry owed him a job, and what makes him a Jumbo Pilot?
I know I am being harsh as it is bad reporting...as usual, but we have all been through or are going through the same crap to get that 1st job...still good luck to him, but unfortunatly I cant see the industry changing too much whilst there is always a good supply of people out there trying to make thier dream come true.
Theres no easy or fast way in this game!!
Hang in there everyone, it is worth the wait
My first impressions at quickly glancing at the article (quick turnaround!) was that it gave the impression that the industry owed him a job, and what makes him a Jumbo Pilot?
I know I am being harsh as it is bad reporting...as usual, but we have all been through or are going through the same crap to get that 1st job...still good luck to him, but unfortunatly I cant see the industry changing too much whilst there is always a good supply of people out there trying to make thier dream come true.
Theres no easy or fast way in this game!!
Hang in there everyone, it is worth the wait
Over 1000 posts and I bought this Personal Title to try and tell my mother the embarrassing news that I am a closet Jazz fan.
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Manchester
Is this such a terrible idea? As remember it (3am after 14 pints in an establishment specialising in fermented products) going bankrupt would be a viable opion for your young lad. Two years attempting to pay off his debts whilst living on not of course. Afterwards he'd still have his qualifications, the airline industry should have picked up and he wouldn't owe the silly ******s who lent him all that money a penny. Ok his credit rating would be pants but he'd have the potential to more than make up for it with his profession.
Come to think of it I wonder if I could persuade one of these 'we'll financially rape you with a smile' cheap advertisement slot type companies to lend me huge amounts of wonga.
Any lawyer types (boo hiss) who know the exact requirements/pitfalls to bankruptcy??
Come to think of it I wonder if I could persuade one of these 'we'll financially rape you with a smile' cheap advertisement slot type companies to lend me huge amounts of wonga.
Any lawyer types (boo hiss) who know the exact requirements/pitfalls to bankruptcy??
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: England
You can't personally go bankrupt unless you are a company director so that idea is a non-starter.
There are currently by my estimation around 800 Frzn ATPL holders in the UK with <500hrs seeking employment. About 70 people a month join them.
WWW
There are currently by my estimation around 800 Frzn ATPL holders in the UK with <500hrs seeking employment. About 70 people a month join them.
WWW
Paid up
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: UK
Anyone can be declared bankrupt, either in a self-induced manner (debtor's petition); or by Creditors who are owed at least £750 by you (Creditors' petition), although the court would have to agree to it.
Having seen a good mate go through it, wouldn't recommend personal bankruptcy to anyone.
PS I'm NOT a lawyer-type, just been around a bit.
Having seen a good mate go through it, wouldn't recommend personal bankruptcy to anyone.
PS I'm NOT a lawyer-type, just been around a bit.
Last edited by Gin Slinger; 15th July 2002 at 23:39.
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From: You Kay
I think you'll find that the vast majority of trainees who stump up the wonga for ATPL courses do so through re-mortgaging their homes. The rest who do not own a home have to provide security on any loan exceeding certain criteria. Been there & done it. Claim bankcruptcy later? More chance of me doing a number two in the Queens handbag! Get real.
"You just keep thinking Butch.......that's what you're best at"
Quote from 'Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid'
BM.
"You just keep thinking Butch.......that's what you're best at"
Quote from 'Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid'
BM.
Last edited by Baldie Man; 16th July 2002 at 00:04.
Over 1000 posts and I bought this Personal Title to try and tell my mother the embarrassing news that I am a closet Jazz fan.
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From: Manchester
Worse than living with 60k of debt? At an interest rate of 9% that would make more than 5 grand a year in interest payments alone. Even if you started a well paid job immiediately (say 20k) you'd be taking home maybe 1150 a month and paying out 40% of that on interest, without touching the total amount owed by a penny. Thats without considering his credit cards, though someone mentioned 20k on those at god only knows what interest rate.
As I understood it (or not!) bankruptcy prevents you from becoming a company director without the courts approval, rather than only directors being able to become bankrupt.
As I understood it (or not!) bankruptcy prevents you from becoming a company director without the courts approval, rather than only directors being able to become bankrupt.
Joined: Jan 2000
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I say good luck to the lad and well done to all of you who put yourself in debt.
I finished training many years ago about £1000 in debt and thought it was a fortune so I cant really imagine £50000.
However what really interests me in the article is the £100000 a year salary anyone know the airline I'd like to apply.
Its that sort of inaccurate reporting that annoys me, how can I now plead poverty down the pub with friends having read that article, thanks very much, guess I had better dust the old wallet down.
I finished training many years ago about £1000 in debt and thought it was a fortune so I cant really imagine £50000.
However what really interests me in the article is the £100000 a year salary anyone know the airline I'd like to apply.
Its that sort of inaccurate reporting that annoys me, how can I now plead poverty down the pub with friends having read that article, thanks very much, guess I had better dust the old wallet down.
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: france
When all you guys have finished carping on about Jon, you should be grateful that the real plight of those wanting to persue the dream of being a commercial pilot has been brought to public attention. I applaud the publicity he got because it is one of the very few professions where full funding by the individual is the norm. This government has not only withdrawn NVQ discounting which helped a lot, but the paltry £8000 loans available hardly cover the costs involved. Airlines sponsor very few cadets, and of course even less now which will create the same hiatus of captains in the future as the last freeze did in 1990. Talk about forward planning.......non existant as far as the Airline industry is concerned.
Jon worked long and hard and is not alone in what he achieved but at least the public at large are more aware of just how hard it is and expensive. The worst of it is remaining current when you can't afford it as so many of us found, only for Airlines to turn their nose up because you have flown little in the previous 6 months. The term Jumbo pilot is of course Press largesse to attract the attention of a wider audience.
We should be grateful for the article, and hope that it has pricked the consciences of Airlines and Governments, who as Heffers column in the Mail pointed out are toying with paying children to go to school when there are many many aspiring pilots out there like Jon willing to undergo considerable sacrifices to follow their dream, at their own expense.
Good luck to all the Jons out there and hang on, the market will recover very quickly, and you guys will find jobs. My opinion is that only good can come out of this. Awareness is everything, so make the most of it.
Jon worked long and hard and is not alone in what he achieved but at least the public at large are more aware of just how hard it is and expensive. The worst of it is remaining current when you can't afford it as so many of us found, only for Airlines to turn their nose up because you have flown little in the previous 6 months. The term Jumbo pilot is of course Press largesse to attract the attention of a wider audience.
We should be grateful for the article, and hope that it has pricked the consciences of Airlines and Governments, who as Heffers column in the Mail pointed out are toying with paying children to go to school when there are many many aspiring pilots out there like Jon willing to undergo considerable sacrifices to follow their dream, at their own expense.
Good luck to all the Jons out there and hang on, the market will recover very quickly, and you guys will find jobs. My opinion is that only good can come out of this. Awareness is everything, so make the most of it.
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
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From: England
Hmm, market forces I am afraid. There are hundreds of unemployed pilots out there. There has never been a shortage since 1944.
Hardly an easy pitch at the treasury sub-committee for training subsidies.
WWW
Hardly an easy pitch at the treasury sub-committee for training subsidies.
WWW