Pros and Cons between Europe/USA Pilot Careers
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Joined: Jun 2016
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From: Wisconsin
Pros and Cons between Europe/USA Pilot Careers
I am planning on starting a career as a pilot soon but I want to know the pros and cons between becoming a pilot in the US vs Europe. I do have citizenship to both Germany and the US. I am wondering in terms of quality of life, working environment, salary, job competition, and overall enjoyment of both. Please let me know which route would be more favorable and rewarding based on your previous experiences!
Thank you.
Thank you.
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
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From: N/A
Some can go from 'zero to hero' in EASA Land (Europe) very quickly.
It is quite common for people to become A320/737 first officers as thier first job at 19 years old.
But only if you are prepared to pay close to 120,000 at one of the top three schools.
If you go the cheaper modular route you may only end up with a regional turboprop job that has a stiff training contract attached to it.
You will have to buy your own type rating.
Airlines often charge you for an interview.
Or they have a training contract that you'll be forced to work off over several years.
Those lucky enough to land a big jet job.
Will be working the first three years for nothing, as they pay off debt.
Captains at budget EU airlines only make about 100,000 a year.
Quite an accomplishment at age 25.
Now repeat every week for the next 40 years.
Not all people in EASA land get the top jobs.
In fact many go nowhere.
Some careers never take off.
Starter jobs in Europe don't really exist in numbers to satisfy demand.
So you end up with highly inexperience people flying large planes.
That may sound fine to you. But is it really fair to your Captain and passengers?
Fed up of paying all those European taxes, where you end up with nothing?
You can jump ship and go to the tax free paradise of The Middle East.
See how long that gig lasts before your sick of it.
I'll give you three years, tops.
Or you can stay in America.
It's not instant success over here.
But is a logical progression from student to flight instructor to air taxi to regional airlines to supplemental airlines to major airlines.
Your success is all but guaranteed.
How far up the ladder you go, is up to you.
The pay for all jobs are much better, and the income taxes are lower.
Things happen fast in America.
You never know what will happen.
It's dynamic.
I fully understand you may want to fly for a German airline as you have the option.
Sure Lufthansa would be pretty cool.
But at the risk of spending a lot of money, it may, or may not, work out for you.
Also, you have two passports, but are you really German?
Once you have been out of their culture for a long time, it's hard to relate.
Can you converse fluently with them?
Just because my children hold British passports, watch Dr Who and eat Jelly Babies. Are they British?
I say, not if they don't like Marmite.
To make your decision:
First spend some time comparing US supplemental airlines pay with the European budget airlines pay.
I think you'll find that the top EASA national airline long haul Captains pay, is about the same as a US budget airlines short haul Captains pay, of about 175,000 - 200,000.
Some US major airlines pay twice that amount.
Should you wish to convert your FAA to EASA.
I would feel a lot more comfortable gaining some experience in the US flying Pt 135 charters before converting.
There simply are too many people graduating schools with (f) ATPL with 275 hours, that you have to compete with.
The time spend doing a EASA (f) ATPL often takes more than a year to do.
With six months of ground school, and three months of flying.
Plan on a conversion from FAA Comm/Inst/Multi to EASA (f) ATPL to cost over 30,000.
Converting a FAA ATP, even a Second In Command ATP with 500 multi crew at age 21 is easier than doing a frozen EASA ATPL.
Because you can self study for the written exams and just take a type rating check ride in Europe for the type of plane you are flying in the US.
I'm not saying the written exams are easy, they are not.
They take complete dedication to accomplish.
Do not even think about doing this on your own.
Always buy an on-line course, and lock yourself in a room for four hours a day for six months.
It is quite common for people to become A320/737 first officers as thier first job at 19 years old.
But only if you are prepared to pay close to 120,000 at one of the top three schools.
If you go the cheaper modular route you may only end up with a regional turboprop job that has a stiff training contract attached to it.
You will have to buy your own type rating.
Airlines often charge you for an interview.
Or they have a training contract that you'll be forced to work off over several years.
Those lucky enough to land a big jet job.
Will be working the first three years for nothing, as they pay off debt.
Captains at budget EU airlines only make about 100,000 a year.
Quite an accomplishment at age 25.
Now repeat every week for the next 40 years.
Not all people in EASA land get the top jobs.
In fact many go nowhere.
Some careers never take off.
Starter jobs in Europe don't really exist in numbers to satisfy demand.
So you end up with highly inexperience people flying large planes.
That may sound fine to you. But is it really fair to your Captain and passengers?
Fed up of paying all those European taxes, where you end up with nothing?
You can jump ship and go to the tax free paradise of The Middle East.
See how long that gig lasts before your sick of it.
I'll give you three years, tops.
Or you can stay in America.
It's not instant success over here.
But is a logical progression from student to flight instructor to air taxi to regional airlines to supplemental airlines to major airlines.
Your success is all but guaranteed.
How far up the ladder you go, is up to you.
The pay for all jobs are much better, and the income taxes are lower.
Things happen fast in America.
You never know what will happen.
It's dynamic.
I fully understand you may want to fly for a German airline as you have the option.
Sure Lufthansa would be pretty cool.
But at the risk of spending a lot of money, it may, or may not, work out for you.
Also, you have two passports, but are you really German?
Once you have been out of their culture for a long time, it's hard to relate.
Can you converse fluently with them?
Just because my children hold British passports, watch Dr Who and eat Jelly Babies. Are they British?
I say, not if they don't like Marmite.
To make your decision:
First spend some time comparing US supplemental airlines pay with the European budget airlines pay.
I think you'll find that the top EASA national airline long haul Captains pay, is about the same as a US budget airlines short haul Captains pay, of about 175,000 - 200,000.
Some US major airlines pay twice that amount.
Should you wish to convert your FAA to EASA.
I would feel a lot more comfortable gaining some experience in the US flying Pt 135 charters before converting.
There simply are too many people graduating schools with (f) ATPL with 275 hours, that you have to compete with.
The time spend doing a EASA (f) ATPL often takes more than a year to do.
With six months of ground school, and three months of flying.
Plan on a conversion from FAA Comm/Inst/Multi to EASA (f) ATPL to cost over 30,000.
Converting a FAA ATP, even a Second In Command ATP with 500 multi crew at age 21 is easier than doing a frozen EASA ATPL.
Because you can self study for the written exams and just take a type rating check ride in Europe for the type of plane you are flying in the US.
I'm not saying the written exams are easy, they are not.
They take complete dedication to accomplish.
Do not even think about doing this on your own.
Always buy an on-line course, and lock yourself in a room for four hours a day for six months.
Last edited by button push ignored; 26th February 2017 at 00:53.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 613
Likes: 1
From: London
I'm inclined to agree that the FAA system is fairly straightforward and although the path to the right-hand seat of a Boeing or Airbus is likely to take longer in the U.S. than Europe at the moment, and that it will likely necessitate an increased exposure to the risk of flying general aviation type aircraft for longer, it is a worthwhile, rewarding and potentially more lucrative journey in the long term.
The biggest issue I would consider would be where do you want to be geographically. You list Wisconsin as your location on here with both U.S. and German citizenship, which is a nice situation however have you spent any time in Germany or Europe in general? Life is quite different than in the U.S. (in both directions) and it would be a pity to invest heavily and relocate to discover that the lifestyle, climate and people didn't suit you.
The biggest issue I would consider would be where do you want to be geographically. You list Wisconsin as your location on here with both U.S. and German citizenship, which is a nice situation however have you spent any time in Germany or Europe in general? Life is quite different than in the U.S. (in both directions) and it would be a pity to invest heavily and relocate to discover that the lifestyle, climate and people didn't suit you.
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
From: N/A
Tech Log. wants to know why the budget US airlines are better than European budget airlines.
I quoted what I thought were the three lowest paid:
Allegiant, Spirit and Frontier.
Allegiant just got a big pay raise.
airlinepilotpay has a far better list.
Allegiant.
Captain: year 12 $216.
Captain: year 1 $152
First officer: year 12 $145.
First officer: year 1 $54.
Spirit.
Captain: year 15 $185.
Captain: year 1 $102.
First officer: year 15 $109.
First officer: year 1 $38.
Frontier.
Captain: year 14 $160.
Captain: year 1 $114.
First officer: year 14 $96.
First officer: year 1 $38.
There is no training contract.
You do not pay for your type rating.
You do not pay for an interview.
Here is another list from airlinepilotcentral.
Airlines top pay per hour.
For a yearly salary.
I find it very close if you just add three zeros.
Legacy Carriers.
United $328
Delta $321
American $302.
Alaska $213
Hawaiian $207
Major Airlines.
Southwest $251
Allegiant $216
Jet Blue $218
Virgin $189
Spirit $185
Frontier $160
Sun Country $169
Regional Airlines.
Corvus $117
Republic $120
Horizon $119
Skywest $117
Go Jet $111
Compass $111
Air Wisconsin $109
Envoy $106
Express Jet $109
Trans State $101
Cape Air $103
Pen Air $91
Mesa $102
Commut Air $107
Piedmont $93
What does a top British Airways pilot make?
Their web site says 151,000 Pounds/year ($175,000)
Emirates only makes about $135,000.
I quoted what I thought were the three lowest paid:
Allegiant, Spirit and Frontier.
Allegiant just got a big pay raise.
airlinepilotpay has a far better list.
Allegiant.
Captain: year 12 $216.
Captain: year 1 $152
First officer: year 12 $145.
First officer: year 1 $54.
Spirit.
Captain: year 15 $185.
Captain: year 1 $102.
First officer: year 15 $109.
First officer: year 1 $38.
Frontier.
Captain: year 14 $160.
Captain: year 1 $114.
First officer: year 14 $96.
First officer: year 1 $38.
There is no training contract.
You do not pay for your type rating.
You do not pay for an interview.
Here is another list from airlinepilotcentral.
Airlines top pay per hour.
For a yearly salary.
I find it very close if you just add three zeros.
Legacy Carriers.
United $328
Delta $321
American $302.
Alaska $213
Hawaiian $207
Major Airlines.
Southwest $251
Allegiant $216
Jet Blue $218
Virgin $189
Spirit $185
Frontier $160
Sun Country $169
Regional Airlines.
Corvus $117
Republic $120
Horizon $119
Skywest $117
Go Jet $111
Compass $111
Air Wisconsin $109
Envoy $106
Express Jet $109
Trans State $101
Cape Air $103
Pen Air $91
Mesa $102
Commut Air $107
Piedmont $93
What does a top British Airways pilot make?
Their web site says 151,000 Pounds/year ($175,000)
Emirates only makes about $135,000.
Last edited by button push ignored; 26th February 2017 at 13:26.
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
From: N/A
For me, the ultimate insult was Thomas Cook wanting GBP425 to go to an interview.
This is partly why I decided on pulling the plug on doing EASA (f) ATPL for now.
There was a time, when I was very enthusiastic about the European aviation scene.
But now, I've soured to it.
It doesn't sound healthy or safe to me.
So, this is my final post.
I've enjoyed reading, learning and conversing with you all over the last few months.
But it's time for me to get back to the original plan.
I wish you all great happiness and success in your careers.
Where ever you go.
This is partly why I decided on pulling the plug on doing EASA (f) ATPL for now.
There was a time, when I was very enthusiastic about the European aviation scene.
But now, I've soured to it.
It doesn't sound healthy or safe to me.
So, this is my final post.
I've enjoyed reading, learning and conversing with you all over the last few months.
But it's time for me to get back to the original plan.
I wish you all great happiness and success in your careers.
Where ever you go.
Last edited by button push ignored; 26th February 2017 at 13:28.
