IMC (IR(R)) rating during hour building?
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 77
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From: UK
IMC (IR(R)) rating during hour building?
Hello!
I am currently hours building out of Liverpool towards the requirements for starting a CPL course in the summer, having completed my ATPL ground exams recently.
I am on a pretty tight timetable, having to complete about 110 hours total and 85 hours PIC before July. Unfortunately, I am already having problems with the weather, and I imagine this will only get worse as we move into winter.
Today I had to cancel a flight due to the weather being marginal. I probably would have been able to make the flight I wanted but if things had gotten a little bit worse I would have been in trouble. Because of this, and as I have some hours that I need to build beyond the basic PIC requirement, I am considering doing the IMC (IR(R)?) rating.
My intention would be to focus on honing my VFR skills (dead reckoning primarily) in preparation for the CPL (which I understand is mostly VFR stuff, bar the compulsory basic instrument flying). However, what the IMC rating would let me do is fly in conditions which are technically suitable for VFR but without having to worry about not being safe and legal should the weather deteriorate. From my experience so far, I imagine this would give me much much more opportunity to go flying even if I don't actually end up in actual IMC. This is important to me as it gives me a better chance of completing the hours on time for my course in the summer.
Having said that I am worried about a few things (apart from the cost, which will come to about £800 extra over just completing those hours on solo VFR flights).
Firstly, I intend to complete the full (ME)IR in the summer right after my CPL. I don't know much about instrument flight training, but I am slightly concerned that I could end up picking up "bad habits" or improper technique on a course designed to keep private pilots safe which could be hard to unpick when it comes to doing the professional IR course. One thing I have been advised by a commercial instructor is to find an IMC rating instructor that has a full IR, preferably with airline experience. But I'm keen to hear what others think regarding this too.
Secondly is a slightly more complex issue. I understand that in the UK we are somewhat unique in that we can fly IFR outside controlled airspace. Does this mean that on a given flight outside controlled airspace, I have total flexibility as to whether I am flying IFR or VFR? I'm assuming this would mean that if, for example, I am flying VFR (with an IR(R)) by dead reckoning and the weather deteriorates and I end up flying into low level cloud, I would be legal (and safe) just to seamlessly continue IFR with reference to instruments and navaids and wouldn't require permission from anybody to do this? I understand that in controlled airspace it's a different story as a flight plan will be filed with a given route, and so I would be restricted to flying VFR and IFR according to the transition points in the plan, as opposed to being able to swap between the two according to weather imposed requirements. What I wouldn't want is to be restricted as to when I can fly VFR/IFR when I happen to be in class G (for anything other than weather) as the whole point of this exercise would be to give me more flexibility to go flying and do my VFR hour building. It would be a waste of time if I am forced to fly IFR for anything other than weather when in class G (which I will be in 95% of the time).
Would appreciate any feedback/advice on this!
Thanks
I am currently hours building out of Liverpool towards the requirements for starting a CPL course in the summer, having completed my ATPL ground exams recently.
I am on a pretty tight timetable, having to complete about 110 hours total and 85 hours PIC before July. Unfortunately, I am already having problems with the weather, and I imagine this will only get worse as we move into winter.
Today I had to cancel a flight due to the weather being marginal. I probably would have been able to make the flight I wanted but if things had gotten a little bit worse I would have been in trouble. Because of this, and as I have some hours that I need to build beyond the basic PIC requirement, I am considering doing the IMC (IR(R)?) rating.
My intention would be to focus on honing my VFR skills (dead reckoning primarily) in preparation for the CPL (which I understand is mostly VFR stuff, bar the compulsory basic instrument flying). However, what the IMC rating would let me do is fly in conditions which are technically suitable for VFR but without having to worry about not being safe and legal should the weather deteriorate. From my experience so far, I imagine this would give me much much more opportunity to go flying even if I don't actually end up in actual IMC. This is important to me as it gives me a better chance of completing the hours on time for my course in the summer.
Having said that I am worried about a few things (apart from the cost, which will come to about £800 extra over just completing those hours on solo VFR flights).
Firstly, I intend to complete the full (ME)IR in the summer right after my CPL. I don't know much about instrument flight training, but I am slightly concerned that I could end up picking up "bad habits" or improper technique on a course designed to keep private pilots safe which could be hard to unpick when it comes to doing the professional IR course. One thing I have been advised by a commercial instructor is to find an IMC rating instructor that has a full IR, preferably with airline experience. But I'm keen to hear what others think regarding this too.
Secondly is a slightly more complex issue. I understand that in the UK we are somewhat unique in that we can fly IFR outside controlled airspace. Does this mean that on a given flight outside controlled airspace, I have total flexibility as to whether I am flying IFR or VFR? I'm assuming this would mean that if, for example, I am flying VFR (with an IR(R)) by dead reckoning and the weather deteriorates and I end up flying into low level cloud, I would be legal (and safe) just to seamlessly continue IFR with reference to instruments and navaids and wouldn't require permission from anybody to do this? I understand that in controlled airspace it's a different story as a flight plan will be filed with a given route, and so I would be restricted to flying VFR and IFR according to the transition points in the plan, as opposed to being able to swap between the two according to weather imposed requirements. What I wouldn't want is to be restricted as to when I can fly VFR/IFR when I happen to be in class G (for anything other than weather) as the whole point of this exercise would be to give me more flexibility to go flying and do my VFR hour building. It would be a waste of time if I am forced to fly IFR for anything other than weather when in class G (which I will be in 95% of the time).
Would appreciate any feedback/advice on this!
Thanks
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
From: UK
Did you consider US for your time building? (Florida / California) cost of hour is much cheaper less than 100£ per hour with fuel included on a C172 and 70£ for a a C152. Even if you pay flight tickets and accommodation will cost you less money than building those hours on UK.
I did all my training in USA under FAA and then convert it to EASA, and didn't have much issue doing CPL, even if I already had 100 hours IFR by then.
I did all my training in USA under FAA and then convert it to EASA, and didn't have much issue doing CPL, even if I already had 100 hours IFR by then.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 802
Likes: 1
From: England
If your thinking of doing an IR. Then why not do a CBIR? Then your IMC hours hours can count towards that. A student I know recently did his MEIR in 30 hours (including test and 8 hours Simm). So a considerable saving over the traditional IR route.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: UK
Thanks guys.
I can't leave the UK at the moment so have to do all my training locally.
I did consider the issue of icing (no airplanes I am flying are equipped for FIKI), and so am keeping an eye on cloud layer heights and the freezing level on days I am grounded as an example of whether an IMC could actually get me airborne on those days in the kind of aircraft I will be flying.
I will be doing the CBIR most likely, but I am not banking on those 15 hours on an IMC rating being knocked off the IR in their entirety (i.e. not confident that I will be sufficiently proficient to have all 15 hours credited and actually require more than the 30 hours to meet test standard) - partly due to the issue I mentioned in my post above about the possible difference in teaching on the IR and IR(R).
I can't leave the UK at the moment so have to do all my training locally.
I did consider the issue of icing (no airplanes I am flying are equipped for FIKI), and so am keeping an eye on cloud layer heights and the freezing level on days I am grounded as an example of whether an IMC could actually get me airborne on those days in the kind of aircraft I will be flying.
I will be doing the CBIR most likely, but I am not banking on those 15 hours on an IMC rating being knocked off the IR in their entirety (i.e. not confident that I will be sufficiently proficient to have all 15 hours credited and actually require more than the 30 hours to meet test standard) - partly due to the issue I mentioned in my post above about the possible difference in teaching on the IR and IR(R).
