NEDude

Hello,

I have an FAA and TCCA ATPL with an A320 type rating. I have over 9,000 hours of total time and over 4,000 hours in the A320 family. I have recently completed the 14 EASA ATPL theory exams and am now ready for the skill test. The ATO I am working with says I need to acquire an EASA CPL first then do the skills test. This does not seem correct based on what I have read. Can anyone clarify that I can just do the ATPL skills test without having to go do a CPL first?

Thank you

737 CL

Hi, It depends on the CAA. I´m in the same situation. There are differences between CAAs in the EASA World. For example under UK you only need a skill test in the simulator you are type rated but in others CAA you need to fly 10 hs and obtain CPL and IR first. Incredible but true. Do you know How is the process to transfer the theoretical exams between countries?

NEDude

Not really sure. All of the license application forms I have seen have a space for information about the theoretical exams and they ask under which authority the exams were taken. So perhaps you just need to fill that out and the CAA where you are applying gets the records from the relevant authority.

I was so hoping the information I had received was incorrect. I had researched the process through the UK, Ireland and the Netherlands and they all stated you just need to do an ATPL skills test. I figured they would all be the same and just doing it all in the country where live would save money. If I have to go back and fly a light twin, which I have not flown in 20 years, it will significantly increase the cost. I may apply to transfer my medical records to the UK and then do the skills test and license application there. Bummer...

2close

You should not have to do a CPL first. EASA regulations are quite specific in this respect and if a NAA tells you that you need to do a CPL/IR first ask for the reference number of the Acceptable Means of Compliance filed with EASA. If a training organisation tells you this, run for the hils as it sounds like a cash making scam.

The theoretical knowledge exams are transferable between countries - the only restriction is that you must take the exams in which you studied or at least be signed off by a local training provider to take the exams in that country. However, as an ICAO Annex 1 ATPL holder you do not need to study or register with a training provider for the exams, you can self-certify to sit the examinations.

The State of Licence Issue (SOLI) will be the country which issued your EASA Class 1 medical.

Probably the best country to do this is the UK - they may gold plate everything up the ying yang but they do tend to do things properly, unlike several other states. Simply transfer your medical from whichever MM EASA state you're currently registered with to the UK, get all of your exam paperwork certified by that state then apply to take the combined ATPL/IR skill test in the UK (or wherever is convenient for you, provided they have an EASA certified sim and examiner).

Qualifying criteria for taking the ATPL skill test is that you must fulfil all requirements for ATPL issue before taking the test, i.e. EASA Class 1 medical (current and valid), 1500 hrs TT, 500 hrs MPA, plus a load of other qualifying experience criteria which you can check in UK CAP 804 (free pdf download), current and valid Type Rating on EASA recognised (CS25) MPA - note that some aircraft types recognised as MPA in some ICAO states are classified as SPA in EASA land, e.g. King Air, Beech 1900, Cessna 500 series, although some will be accepted in certain EASA states as MPA if it can be demonstrated that the experience gained on these types was as MPA and certified as such on an AOC. I have known of ATPL's issued on a King Air operated as MPA on an AOC.

Hope that's of some use.

NEDude

It is of very much use. That is exactly the process I have read numerous times. Thank you.

737 CL

I think the same... Try with Uk there are the best in the process of conversion. The answer I received of the CAA is that EASA have a Rule but every CAA could have more restricted rules. Welcome To EASA. Enjoy.

spaflyer

This info is from CAA UK, (I'm in the same page):

Thank you for your email regarding the request for reduced training for the your ICAO conversion. Information regarding reduced training requirements for an ICAO CPL and IR conversion is detailed in CAP 804, Section 4, Part Q, Subpart 2 page 3 and 4. The minimum instruction time for a CPL is dependent on your total hours as a pilot of aeroplanes. Any requests for an additional reduction in training or different spilt between SIM and aeroplane other than as detailed in CAP 804 must come directly from the training provided. Please ensure that your training provider confirms the information relating to your FAA licence and that it is current and valid and that you have a current and valid FAA IR, type or class rating and FAA medical. Please also confirm the dates of your must recent flight test or flight reviews for your ratings on your FAA licence. We will also require details of your total amount of flying time .

So you need approval from CAA, with the proposed training path and any waiver must be requested.


http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/...searchable.pdf

Alex Whittingham

But this is an ATPL conversion, not the conversion of a CPL/IR. I agree with 2close, according to Article 8 para 4 you can take the ATPL skill test on type providing you meet the other requirements and have a current and valid A320 type rating. You do not need any prior training, in theory you can just find a TRTO, arrange an examiner and take the test.

NEDude

Thank you all for the input. I spoke directly with someone in the CAA (It is Denmark for those who are interested) and he confirmed that they follow the EASA regulations and do not have any additional requirements. If I meet the experience requirements in part-FCL for the issuance of an ATPL, and meet the experience requirements in Annex 8 of EU regulation 1178/2011 for the issuance of a type rating, then all that is required is the ATPL skills test in a simulator.

NEDude

Okay everyone, here is a new question:

What is the deal with the radio license? Every school/ATO that deals with converting ICAO ATPLs to EASA ATPLs lists the following requirements:

1) Pass the 14 EASA ATPL theory exams.

2) Acquire an EASA first class medical certificate.

3) Pass an ATPL skills test on a multi-crew aircraft (e.g. A320, B737, etc)

There is never any mention of the radio license. However all of the ATPL application forms I have seen ask for the radio license information. One school has informed me I have to take a radio course, sit the radio license exam, then do an English assessment, all before applying for the ATPL.

Is this correct? If not, then where does the radio license fit in with the entire process? Does my FAA radio license help play a role at all?

2close

Unless you are a native English speaking person from a country where English is the first language, you will need to pass an ICAO Aviation English examination at Level 4 - 6, in order to apply for an EASA licence.

Obviously, your English is good enough to pass at Level 6 but I have assessed many fluent English speaking pilots at Level 6; in practical terms the test was quite unnecessary but had to be undertaken as they were not native English speakers and you need to produce a certificate of test when applying for the licence. The test must also be taken at an approved test centre and using an approved test.

The radio licence is a peculiarity of the UK, and is a requirement of UK telecommunications legislation and not aviation legislation. It just happens to have been placed under the control of the responsible regulatory authority for the transport service covered, e.g. the CAA look after aviation radio licences.

Your FAA licence is not convertible into a UK FRTOL (Flight Radio Telephony Operators Licence. As I remember it, FCC Form 605 permits operation of radio equipment when flying on a FAA licence in foreign airspace only.

If you are not applying for a UK licence you can forget the RT licence but you will need the English language certificate. Sorry, I don't do them any longer, otherwise I could have helped out; but I can point you in the direction of a couple of approved UK test providers, Mayflower College, Plymouth - English language courses in England and www.anglo-continental.com.

Hope that helps a little.

Barnouz

Hello,

I am also due to take my skill test soon (FAA ATP converting into UK CAA ATPL)
and I have a specific question concerning the skill test in the simulator; for me it will be on the EMB145.

The other pilot sitting with me in the sim to be the first officer, does he have to have an EASA ATP or can I ask one of my coworkers from the US with a FAA ATP to do it? (so I can avoid paying someone from the training center in Europe). I asked the CAA via fclweb but they say it can take a long time to be answered.
Thank you.

(By the way I took a radiotelephony exam in the UK because the FAA licences are only equivalent to a level 4)

NEDude

So this is becoming an ongoing saga. Denmark is now informing me that I must meet the "prerequisites" for an ATPL, which means holding a CPL/IR first. However EU regulation 1178/2011, article 8 states that I must meet the "experience requirements". It does not states that I must meet the "prerequisites", only "experience requirements", which are two separate paragraphs in the regulation.

Long story short here folks, do the license conversion through a state that has a lot of experience in the process. Clearly some states are novices at this process.

Iampilot2

Hello guys,
I am also looking into taking the ATPL skill test, any suggestions to where I could take the flight test and cost??
I have found an good option, but still...

I am type rated on DHC 8, but also B737 CL.
Thanks..

Iampilot2

I suggest doing it through the Norwegian CAA.
They know what they are doing

jowong1

I have a new question:

for the skill test, is it done in a sim of ANY type rating a/c or only type rating a/c in which you have at least 500h in?

Is base flight required?

Thanks