How Close Really Is The S.a. Licence To Jaa?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: London.UK
How Close Really Is The S.a. Licence To Jaa?
Hi everyone, I am considering going to South Africa to do an intergratd course to 200hrs:
The price is very attractive, however I was wondering if it is worth me doing the SA CPL/IR; Would it assist me in getting a first time pass with JAA when I return or, should I only do 0-150hrs: and save the money to help me pay for some of the cost of my JAA ATPL exams and CPL/IR back heare.
Also,some advice on recomended schools in S.A. and any ideas on how I can enter them without paying all this extra commision in GBP's to their U.K. reps rather than Rands, at local prices. How will I work the vias situation without the U.K. reps? etc.
Many thanks in advance, my first post,please excuse me if I have asked any obvious questions. All replies and advice welcome.
Kind regards,
TooFly.
The price is very attractive, however I was wondering if it is worth me doing the SA CPL/IR; Would it assist me in getting a first time pass with JAA when I return or, should I only do 0-150hrs: and save the money to help me pay for some of the cost of my JAA ATPL exams and CPL/IR back heare.
Also,some advice on recomended schools in S.A. and any ideas on how I can enter them without paying all this extra commision in GBP's to their U.K. reps rather than Rands, at local prices. How will I work the vias situation without the U.K. reps? etc.
Many thanks in advance, my first post,please excuse me if I have asked any obvious questions. All replies and advice welcome.
Kind regards,
TooFly.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Uk
To be honest, only go out there to build hours.
I've been there done it and got the t-shirt.
I got a SA ICAO CPL/TWIN IR and Instructors and stayed for 3 years.
The licences are not worth toffee apple over here.
Not only will you have to sign on at an approved JAA school and redo ground school when you return, but you'll have to do all the exams again, but this time there are 4 options to each answer and they are JAA, not **** easy SA ICAO!!. Not worth it!But if the schools are offering you JAA, then it's a different story.
No matter which school you go to in S.A. i can assure you they have not been doing ATPL JAA ground school for long enough. FTC only just started.!! It took the likes of Bristol and Oxford 2 years to get to the standard they are at.
I have 5 other people who have done the S.A. route and regretted it because the hassle of changing over licences means you'd be better off starting it here. This is for the ground school side by the way.
As for the first 150 hours flying, do it in SA, it's great flying!!!. Then come back and do the rest of the flying here including the tests.
All i can say is trust me and the others who have done it.
The schools may promise the Earth and tell you otherwise, but nothing is so sure and the proof that is in the pudding.
Now, as to how to get around those lovely money grabbing UK agents. Go to S.A. as if it's a holiday, no visa needed before you go. With a UK passport nothing is needed. Your holiday visa which they stamp your passport with when you enter SA is for 3 months, and can be extended for another three months while your there. Go as a tourist, a back backer, anything, which you are. Your on a flying holiday!!!
Then go into the school off the street and say can I fly please. If they ask why do you have a posh English acent, reply, i lived in the UK for a few years. Honestly, this is all legit!.
They cannot stop you doing it this way. You ARE ON HOLIDAY, your flying instead of looking at animals. You DO NOT have to pay in GBP!!.
Have tremendous fun!!!
I've been there done it and got the t-shirt.
I got a SA ICAO CPL/TWIN IR and Instructors and stayed for 3 years.
The licences are not worth toffee apple over here.
Not only will you have to sign on at an approved JAA school and redo ground school when you return, but you'll have to do all the exams again, but this time there are 4 options to each answer and they are JAA, not **** easy SA ICAO!!. Not worth it!But if the schools are offering you JAA, then it's a different story.
No matter which school you go to in S.A. i can assure you they have not been doing ATPL JAA ground school for long enough. FTC only just started.!! It took the likes of Bristol and Oxford 2 years to get to the standard they are at.
I have 5 other people who have done the S.A. route and regretted it because the hassle of changing over licences means you'd be better off starting it here. This is for the ground school side by the way.
As for the first 150 hours flying, do it in SA, it's great flying!!!. Then come back and do the rest of the flying here including the tests.
All i can say is trust me and the others who have done it.
The schools may promise the Earth and tell you otherwise, but nothing is so sure and the proof that is in the pudding.
Now, as to how to get around those lovely money grabbing UK agents. Go to S.A. as if it's a holiday, no visa needed before you go. With a UK passport nothing is needed. Your holiday visa which they stamp your passport with when you enter SA is for 3 months, and can be extended for another three months while your there. Go as a tourist, a back backer, anything, which you are. Your on a flying holiday!!!
Then go into the school off the street and say can I fly please. If they ask why do you have a posh English acent, reply, i lived in the UK for a few years. Honestly, this is all legit!.
They cannot stop you doing it this way. You ARE ON HOLIDAY, your flying instead of looking at animals. You DO NOT have to pay in GBP!!.
Have tremendous fun!!!
Last edited by pugzi; 18th June 2002 at 14:40.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: London.UK
How close is the SA licence to the JAA?
Thank you for your reply Pugzi. I understand that I will not be creited much hours on my return to the UK, and that I will have to do the exams again, however, would the extea hours gained doing the CPL/IR assist me in i.e. the flight test? get me familia with the exams? is the whole S.A. system realy that much closer to JAA than FAA?
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Uk
Every flying hour is loggable and valid in any country and under any licence, so the all the hours you build will count!!.
In this respect doing the CPL/IR in S.A. will give valuable CHEAP instrument flying. But you'll never use the licence, it's only usefull because you're now familar with instrument flying. That kind of flying here will cost you an arm and leg.
The only snag, whatever you do and even if you have the CPL/IR you'll still have to 55hours of IF/IR in the UK before the UK CAA give you an ATPL JAA licence (thats assuming you've got all the exams and pass the ATPL flight test).
At the end of the day, only do your flying upto CPL/IR in S.A.
DO NOT DO the CPL/IR flight test. The reason, you can't do the flight test without the exams. Which means ground school for 6 weeks or more in the classroom. Not worth it.
Come back to the UK and do the ATPL ground school here, get the ground exams, then get your flying done.
SA ground school will get you familar with a lot of the stuff in the JAA, but now your doing 2 sets of exams, 2 sets of ground schools, 2 sets of DOSH!!!!.
By the way, this is all my opinion.
Enjoy.
In this respect doing the CPL/IR in S.A. will give valuable CHEAP instrument flying. But you'll never use the licence, it's only usefull because you're now familar with instrument flying. That kind of flying here will cost you an arm and leg.
The only snag, whatever you do and even if you have the CPL/IR you'll still have to 55hours of IF/IR in the UK before the UK CAA give you an ATPL JAA licence (thats assuming you've got all the exams and pass the ATPL flight test).
At the end of the day, only do your flying upto CPL/IR in S.A.
DO NOT DO the CPL/IR flight test. The reason, you can't do the flight test without the exams. Which means ground school for 6 weeks or more in the classroom. Not worth it.
Come back to the UK and do the ATPL ground school here, get the ground exams, then get your flying done.
SA ground school will get you familar with a lot of the stuff in the JAA, but now your doing 2 sets of exams, 2 sets of ground schools, 2 sets of DOSH!!!!.
By the way, this is all my opinion.
Enjoy.
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Africa
TooFly
If your aim is to get a JAA license, and then find work in Europe, then a lot of what Pugzi has said holds true.
However if you want to find work and build experience outside Europe then you will find a SA license is perfectly acceptable - it is actually of a very high standard. If you can get your SA ATPL and 1500 hours on multi-crew aircraft it will also make your conversion to JAA a lot easier.
That is what I am doing at the moment. I have just done the first 8 JAA exams and found them comparatively easy... your knowledge from SA will go a long way.
Whatever you do, flying in South(ern) Africa is a fantastic experience.
Good luck
CM
If your aim is to get a JAA license, and then find work in Europe, then a lot of what Pugzi has said holds true.
However if you want to find work and build experience outside Europe then you will find a SA license is perfectly acceptable - it is actually of a very high standard. If you can get your SA ATPL and 1500 hours on multi-crew aircraft it will also make your conversion to JAA a lot easier.
That is what I am doing at the moment. I have just done the first 8 JAA exams and found them comparatively easy... your knowledge from SA will go a long way.
Whatever you do, flying in South(ern) Africa is a fantastic experience.
Good luck
CM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Uk
Here here clogmaster, well said. Southern Africa flying is some of the best you'l ever do. Nothing rings truer than "i learnt about flying from that". I had great fun, some great scares and some fantastic weather. It's seat of your pants stuff, LOVE IT!!
