iv made my decision. where to now?
Dir. PPRuNe Line Service
Actually liquidhockey, you still CAN do you A-levels. It's called evening classes or nightschool, and the level of teaching is generally as good as or sometimes better than that at school.
Two friends of mine, a mother and daughter, both successfully did an A-level in an academic subject in one year at night school. The mother had never passed an exam in her life; the daughter was only 16 at the time.
---PPRuNe Dispatcher
Two friends of mine, a mother and daughter, both successfully did an A-level in an academic subject in one year at night school. The mother had never passed an exam in her life; the daughter was only 16 at the time.
---PPRuNe Dispatcher
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Seth,
Just what DOES he want us to tell him?
It has ALL been said in one way or another!
I think the comments have become 'slightly disparaging' out of frustration with this lad.
He seems to only want to hear what he wants to hear. There have been plenty pieces of advice which did not include going back to college, but they have been rolled into the ‘none of you will listen’ category.
At least four replies have given him a route ahead, albeit with some words of caution and some questioning of his abilities to get through the ATPL course if he can’t hack A levels (for whatever reason).
From what I have read so far and his attitude towards those who offer genuine advice, based on experience, there is little chance of LH passing an aptitude test let alone an MCC course.
Enthusiasm is one thing but it has to be tempered by the reality of life and that is not what he wants to hear about.
LH ….
Will you feel better if we tell you that you have made the right decision and welcome you aboard?, tell you that everything is easy and to get yourself down to OATS and sign yourself up, sail through the course and we’ll see you in the RHS of a 747 this time next year?? ….. NOT A BLOODY CHANCE!
Good luck with whatever you choose, but I don’t think you’re going to hear what you want to hear here…whatever it is!
[ 23 July 2001: Message edited by: clear prop!!! ]
Just what DOES he want us to tell him?
It has ALL been said in one way or another!
I think the comments have become 'slightly disparaging' out of frustration with this lad.
He seems to only want to hear what he wants to hear. There have been plenty pieces of advice which did not include going back to college, but they have been rolled into the ‘none of you will listen’ category.
At least four replies have given him a route ahead, albeit with some words of caution and some questioning of his abilities to get through the ATPL course if he can’t hack A levels (for whatever reason).
From what I have read so far and his attitude towards those who offer genuine advice, based on experience, there is little chance of LH passing an aptitude test let alone an MCC course.
Enthusiasm is one thing but it has to be tempered by the reality of life and that is not what he wants to hear about.
LH ….
Will you feel better if we tell you that you have made the right decision and welcome you aboard?, tell you that everything is easy and to get yourself down to OATS and sign yourself up, sail through the course and we’ll see you in the RHS of a 747 this time next year?? ….. NOT A BLOODY CHANCE!
Good luck with whatever you choose, but I don’t think you’re going to hear what you want to hear here…whatever it is!
[ 23 July 2001: Message edited by: clear prop!!! ]
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Dave,
you've heard all this in various ways, but let's see if I can present the argument in a way that makes sense to you.
At 17 you have one great advantage over all other wannabes, and that is time. Your challenge is to use that time to add value to yourself so that when you come to look for a job (in whatever field) you stand out above the average applicant. That is easily explained, but bloody hard to do.
You have decided to leave your A-level course? Well, that puts you at a serious dieadvantage against all those who continue. You don't need A-levels for a flying job, some will say. No, you don't. There are some even in BA, Virgin, etc who don't have them, but not many - and almost none of them are under 40 years old. You could well, after 5 or 6 years hard graft, end up with an air taxi job without those A-levels, having a lovely time in your twin piston, visiting the great airports where those better qualified (and, by now, younger) than you are just getting into their Airbusses and Boeings and jetting off to parts of the world you'll never see - unless you pay for it yourself.
Of course, you might say the world is full of those who have succeeded without academic exams. Well, acyually it isn't. There are a very few, highly visible, entrepeneurs that have made it (and, even without the exams, they worked their arses off to get where they are). For every one of those there are thousands of more ordinary folk who took the conventional route. Airlines do not employ unconventional people, believe me.
So, how can you use your time to get an advantage over the other Joe Bloggses out there? Go to watever educational establishment you can and get those A-levels as quickly and as well as you can. Then get your Class 1 medical and do the GAPAN aptitude tests. If you're still considered worthy of flight training, get on a PPL course and start applying for sponsorships.
To reinforce the point, the rarest pilot in the airlines now is the under-30 chap with no A-levels and no financial cushion to get him through unspomsored training. Why make it difficult for yourself?
To put it another way, why should anyone help a guy who refuses to help himself?
you've heard all this in various ways, but let's see if I can present the argument in a way that makes sense to you.
At 17 you have one great advantage over all other wannabes, and that is time. Your challenge is to use that time to add value to yourself so that when you come to look for a job (in whatever field) you stand out above the average applicant. That is easily explained, but bloody hard to do.
You have decided to leave your A-level course? Well, that puts you at a serious dieadvantage against all those who continue. You don't need A-levels for a flying job, some will say. No, you don't. There are some even in BA, Virgin, etc who don't have them, but not many - and almost none of them are under 40 years old. You could well, after 5 or 6 years hard graft, end up with an air taxi job without those A-levels, having a lovely time in your twin piston, visiting the great airports where those better qualified (and, by now, younger) than you are just getting into their Airbusses and Boeings and jetting off to parts of the world you'll never see - unless you pay for it yourself.
Of course, you might say the world is full of those who have succeeded without academic exams. Well, acyually it isn't. There are a very few, highly visible, entrepeneurs that have made it (and, even without the exams, they worked their arses off to get where they are). For every one of those there are thousands of more ordinary folk who took the conventional route. Airlines do not employ unconventional people, believe me.
So, how can you use your time to get an advantage over the other Joe Bloggses out there? Go to watever educational establishment you can and get those A-levels as quickly and as well as you can. Then get your Class 1 medical and do the GAPAN aptitude tests. If you're still considered worthy of flight training, get on a PPL course and start applying for sponsorships.
To reinforce the point, the rarest pilot in the airlines now is the under-30 chap with no A-levels and no financial cushion to get him through unspomsored training. Why make it difficult for yourself?
To put it another way, why should anyone help a guy who refuses to help himself?
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LH,
As you seem determined to get an answer to your question of what to do, I'll do my best to give a simple answer. But as most on this forum will agree, there are many different paths to go, so there really isn't a simple answer.
First thing you should do is get a Class 1 medical, budget about 400pnds & half a day at the CAA Aviation House in Gatwick. Without a Class 1, the rest doesn't matter!!
Next, decide what your aviation goals are. From there, you can start to figure out what path might help you reach them. The path to the LHS seat of a shiny new 777, or as you're still a few years away a 380 or even the Sonic Cruiser might be different than the path to being an instructor or a turbo-prop pilot. Or is your goal to be a line check-pilot or the fleet manager at a larger carrier? You need to decide what you want out of a flying career??
As you already know, you basically have 2 routes. You can either do a modular route, training as you earn, or you can do a self-funded ab-initio course (OATS, JEREZ, etc...). Each has it's advantages, & it's disadvantages, but as you've been researching this for the past year, I won't rehash all of them here.
You've already gone on your first flight, which is great. But, have you looked into flight clubs or schools in your area?? Or have you started looking into how to fund a 60,000pnd ab-initio course.If you've figured that one out, let me know!!!
A great book to get would be "the Guide to Getting your Commercial Licence" by Clive Hughes (already mentioned on this thread & many times in the Wannabes forum). You can get a copy through Transair pilot shops. & keep PPRUNEing, there's a huge wealth of information available here, even the opinions that you may not like.
Specifically for you, I'd recommend starting your PPL, at least start the ground school as you figure the rest out. I say that because, 1) you can see what you're getting yourself into & 2) you'll see what flying aptitude you possess. I would recommend the GAPAN testing, as it also would be a great indicator of your potential flying skills & on your ability to do aptitude tests, but as you've already eliminated yourself from most sponsorships, you don't have to worry about aptitude tests. So you might as well spend the money on lessons & get feedback from an instructor!! Working & flying is probably the best way at this stage, but try to fly as many times each week as you can, this will save on re-learning techniques & allow you to progress quickly & with some order.
Last few things, I took a look at previous threads to try to get some background. In March 2001, you stated that you didn't think you'd finish your A-levels with the B's required for City University, fair enough. If finishing them will only hurt you, then why finish?? Not finishing can't hurt you anymore than finishing with bad grades. The sponsorships that require A-levels you'd be excluded from either way. You also wanted to know if you needed to be a rocket scientist to complete your ATPL's, you were told that you'd didn't need to be a rocket scientist, but you did need to know how to study & prepare for the exams. School gives you this advantage, but it isn't the only way to learn how to study. I hope you know how, because the subject matter is very in depth and is not easy. Starting your PPL groundschool will show you this.
To give you a little background to the industry on this side of the pond, Air Canada requires both a degree and an ATPL. Actually all carriers in North America require a degree in addition to your ATPL, so without a degree you're excluded right from the start. It's a little different in the UK. They don't require a degree or your A-levels, but there will be many pilots applying who will have them. What do you offer to make up for it, is it a second language, is it fast-jet experience, is it glass cockpit experience, is it a type rating?? So you may not be excluded but you'll have to make up for it somewhere to swing the scale back in your favour. Interviews are generally awarded using points, points for hours, points for education etc... What will be the equalizer for you??
Hope this helps!! & Good-Luck!!
[ 23 July 2001: Message edited by: Flying Canuck ]
As you seem determined to get an answer to your question of what to do, I'll do my best to give a simple answer. But as most on this forum will agree, there are many different paths to go, so there really isn't a simple answer.
First thing you should do is get a Class 1 medical, budget about 400pnds & half a day at the CAA Aviation House in Gatwick. Without a Class 1, the rest doesn't matter!!
Next, decide what your aviation goals are. From there, you can start to figure out what path might help you reach them. The path to the LHS seat of a shiny new 777, or as you're still a few years away a 380 or even the Sonic Cruiser might be different than the path to being an instructor or a turbo-prop pilot. Or is your goal to be a line check-pilot or the fleet manager at a larger carrier? You need to decide what you want out of a flying career??
As you already know, you basically have 2 routes. You can either do a modular route, training as you earn, or you can do a self-funded ab-initio course (OATS, JEREZ, etc...). Each has it's advantages, & it's disadvantages, but as you've been researching this for the past year, I won't rehash all of them here.
You've already gone on your first flight, which is great. But, have you looked into flight clubs or schools in your area?? Or have you started looking into how to fund a 60,000pnd ab-initio course.If you've figured that one out, let me know!!!
A great book to get would be "the Guide to Getting your Commercial Licence" by Clive Hughes (already mentioned on this thread & many times in the Wannabes forum). You can get a copy through Transair pilot shops. & keep PPRUNEing, there's a huge wealth of information available here, even the opinions that you may not like.
Specifically for you, I'd recommend starting your PPL, at least start the ground school as you figure the rest out. I say that because, 1) you can see what you're getting yourself into & 2) you'll see what flying aptitude you possess. I would recommend the GAPAN testing, as it also would be a great indicator of your potential flying skills & on your ability to do aptitude tests, but as you've already eliminated yourself from most sponsorships, you don't have to worry about aptitude tests. So you might as well spend the money on lessons & get feedback from an instructor!! Working & flying is probably the best way at this stage, but try to fly as many times each week as you can, this will save on re-learning techniques & allow you to progress quickly & with some order.
Last few things, I took a look at previous threads to try to get some background. In March 2001, you stated that you didn't think you'd finish your A-levels with the B's required for City University, fair enough. If finishing them will only hurt you, then why finish?? Not finishing can't hurt you anymore than finishing with bad grades. The sponsorships that require A-levels you'd be excluded from either way. You also wanted to know if you needed to be a rocket scientist to complete your ATPL's, you were told that you'd didn't need to be a rocket scientist, but you did need to know how to study & prepare for the exams. School gives you this advantage, but it isn't the only way to learn how to study. I hope you know how, because the subject matter is very in depth and is not easy. Starting your PPL groundschool will show you this.
To give you a little background to the industry on this side of the pond, Air Canada requires both a degree and an ATPL. Actually all carriers in North America require a degree in addition to your ATPL, so without a degree you're excluded right from the start. It's a little different in the UK. They don't require a degree or your A-levels, but there will be many pilots applying who will have them. What do you offer to make up for it, is it a second language, is it fast-jet experience, is it glass cockpit experience, is it a type rating?? So you may not be excluded but you'll have to make up for it somewhere to swing the scale back in your favour. Interviews are generally awarded using points, points for hours, points for education etc... What will be the equalizer for you??
Hope this helps!! & Good-Luck!!
[ 23 July 2001: Message edited by: Flying Canuck ]
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LH,
I can sympathize with you on this.
However, when I was asked to leave the establishment that I was at, I did not have anybody to fall back on for advice and guidance to the degree that has been presented to you so far and trust me what's above will help you in the long run
The only things I feel that are to be said are these.
i) Give yourself one full day to make the final, final decision.
ii) Seriously consider distance learning, it's not easy, but WILL work out in your advantage.
iii) Whatever you do, good luck and I'm sure that everyone here will help where they can.
All the best
Fra
I can sympathize with you on this.
However, when I was asked to leave the establishment that I was at, I did not have anybody to fall back on for advice and guidance to the degree that has been presented to you so far and trust me what's above will help you in the long run
The only things I feel that are to be said are these.
i) Give yourself one full day to make the final, final decision.
ii) Seriously consider distance learning, it's not easy, but WILL work out in your advantage.
iii) Whatever you do, good luck and I'm sure that everyone here will help where they can.
All the best
Fra
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ok.
i appreciate the advice scroggs and im going to look into nightschool and just get an idea of cost, how long it takes etc.
if anyone with experience with this can help me i would be grateful.
Afterall it cant hurt to have a look and thats what i said about finding out how to become a pilot and look at me now all motivated and ready to go.
Cheers
Dave
i appreciate the advice scroggs and im going to look into nightschool and just get an idea of cost, how long it takes etc.
if anyone with experience with this can help me i would be grateful.
Afterall it cant hurt to have a look and thats what i said about finding out how to become a pilot and look at me now all motivated and ready to go.
Cheers
Dave
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Just an aside to what you've already been told Dave, if you haven't done so already, look at Pilot Pete's story and it will show you what you can come up against in trying to make it. But also it shows that it is certainly possible (cracking read by the way Pete).
Good luck.
Good luck.
The Original Whirly
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Liquid Hockey,
Just one more thing to add. The previous post suggests to me that you found A levels tough. Well, I passed three A levels many years ago, in science subjects, with two grade As and one B. I went to Uni, got a Class 2(i) degree, with merits in most subjects on the way up. Many years later, when out of practice at studying, I moved to Wales, and did O and A level Welsh for the heck of it, while working full time. I'm telling you this to show that I'm not stupid, and I can do academic stuff, OK?
Earlier this year I did the CPL(H) exams, the old CAA ones. They're slightly easier than ATPLs, and I believe the JAR exams are all harder than the old ones anyway. I've passed them all now, but THEY WERE THE HARDEST THING I'VE EVER DONE!
The above is purely for your information along with everything else.
Just one more thing to add. The previous post suggests to me that you found A levels tough. Well, I passed three A levels many years ago, in science subjects, with two grade As and one B. I went to Uni, got a Class 2(i) degree, with merits in most subjects on the way up. Many years later, when out of practice at studying, I moved to Wales, and did O and A level Welsh for the heck of it, while working full time. I'm telling you this to show that I'm not stupid, and I can do academic stuff, OK?
Earlier this year I did the CPL(H) exams, the old CAA ones. They're slightly easier than ATPLs, and I believe the JAR exams are all harder than the old ones anyway. I've passed them all now, but THEY WERE THE HARDEST THING I'VE EVER DONE!
The above is purely for your information along with everything else.
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Hi Liquid Hockey,
If you are still reading this far and not too disillusioned, here's a different view.
Time and money is likely to get you there...eventually...just a question of how long and how much. Early days of flying are usually pretty good indicators of how you are going to progress through the levels from PPL to CPL etc. If you find the early stages hard (perhaps judged by how many hours it takes to get your PPL, go First Solo, pass written exams etc), it's likely you will also find the later stages difficult...etc.
One thing that is cast iron is that you MUST have a Class I Medical to become an Airline Pilot. This is dependent on your body & its physical well-being - a lot of which you can't influence.
My advice to you if you have definitely decided would be to go to the CAA and get a Class I Medical FIRST before shelling out any money on flying training - cos if you are unfortunate enough to fail on something, you won't be able to continue.
Hopefully you will pass this, but you do need to know.
Go to: www.caa.co.uk Medical Section for info.
If you are still reading this far and not too disillusioned, here's a different view.
Time and money is likely to get you there...eventually...just a question of how long and how much. Early days of flying are usually pretty good indicators of how you are going to progress through the levels from PPL to CPL etc. If you find the early stages hard (perhaps judged by how many hours it takes to get your PPL, go First Solo, pass written exams etc), it's likely you will also find the later stages difficult...etc.
One thing that is cast iron is that you MUST have a Class I Medical to become an Airline Pilot. This is dependent on your body & its physical well-being - a lot of which you can't influence.
My advice to you if you have definitely decided would be to go to the CAA and get a Class I Medical FIRST before shelling out any money on flying training - cos if you are unfortunate enough to fail on something, you won't be able to continue.
Hopefully you will pass this, but you do need to know.
Go to: www.caa.co.uk Medical Section for info.
