Difficulty of ATPL exams
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Nottingham
Age: 30
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Difficulty of ATPL exams
Greetings all aviators,
I have a question regarding the difficulty of ATPL ground school exams.
I am currently studying a degree in physics at university, and intend to commence ATPL integrated training after I graduate, and I was wondering how does the content of ground school exams compare to the workload at graduate level?
I would be pleased to hear from anyone that has had experience in either uni/ground school, and how the difficulties compare. Personally, looking at the subjects I think I would be competent at the maths/physics elements, but I am wondering how difficult the other subject areas such as meteorology or IFR comms for example.
Apologies if this question has already been posted, please redirect me if it has!
I have a question regarding the difficulty of ATPL ground school exams.
I am currently studying a degree in physics at university, and intend to commence ATPL integrated training after I graduate, and I was wondering how does the content of ground school exams compare to the workload at graduate level?
I would be pleased to hear from anyone that has had experience in either uni/ground school, and how the difficulties compare. Personally, looking at the subjects I think I would be competent at the maths/physics elements, but I am wondering how difficult the other subject areas such as meteorology or IFR comms for example.
Apologies if this question has already been posted, please redirect me if it has!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
Posts: 4,149
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
14 Posts
They are not difficult per se, just a lot to stuff into your head.
Not much different from somewhere between O and A level (that shows you how old I am!)
Not much different from somewhere between O and A level (that shows you how old I am!)
I did an integrated ATPL, and worked from 0600 to 1800 weekdays, for about 18 months on and off - but that included the commute between Oxford and Aylesbury every weekday. Then I did 2-4 hours work or revision at home most weekday evenings. My overall exam average was over 90%, so I might have overdone it a bit.....
As paco says, the exams are not difficult as such, there's just so much of it to cram and then reproduce, and so many different subjects.
By the way, I would save your money, and NOT get into aviation. It is a mug's game these days, honestly. As well as working on zero hours contracts etc and terrible terms and conditions, you will basically have to decide between getting an aviation job (if you're extremely lucky), or buying a house. I don't want to sound cynical, but you have been warned. You are looking at the wrong end of about £120k.
As paco says, the exams are not difficult as such, there's just so much of it to cram and then reproduce, and so many different subjects.
By the way, I would save your money, and NOT get into aviation. It is a mug's game these days, honestly. As well as working on zero hours contracts etc and terrible terms and conditions, you will basically have to decide between getting an aviation job (if you're extremely lucky), or buying a house. I don't want to sound cynical, but you have been warned. You are looking at the wrong end of about £120k.
Last edited by Uplinker; 13th Mar 2015 at 09:55.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sunny Solihull
Age: 67
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Assuming you pass your physics degree then the ATPLs will be easier academic wise. Met and Gen Nav seem to cause the biggest amount of trouble but the comms exams are little short of a joke. Your degree will certainly be of benefit in certain areas. As Phil says lies somewhere between old O & A levels (not GCSE).
Over many years I have taught several hundred graduate level students on ATPL integrated courses. The biggest problems they tend to face is the volume of material (some highly questionable as to its relevance) in the amount of time (7-8 months) and of turning up on time in uniform everyday!.
So it's full on day time ground school and most students will be doing another 3 hours per night and work at weekends, though I would advise taking a least a day off. You'll have to accept the 'system' whatever your thoughts might be about it and just crack on with your goal and put your social life on hold. If you do this then all passed in 8 months then on to the fun bit. Ignore this advise then you'll be still doing ground school in 12 months with failed exams, re-sits & possible re-course or termination (though this is vary rare).
Uplinker has a valid point. Some students do very well (many now captains after 7-8 years) while others struggle or find nothing doing, if you can get accepted on a scheme this would really improve your chances - note NO GUARANTEES in this business despite what the sales people will spin you.
Over many years I have taught several hundred graduate level students on ATPL integrated courses. The biggest problems they tend to face is the volume of material (some highly questionable as to its relevance) in the amount of time (7-8 months) and of turning up on time in uniform everyday!.
So it's full on day time ground school and most students will be doing another 3 hours per night and work at weekends, though I would advise taking a least a day off. You'll have to accept the 'system' whatever your thoughts might be about it and just crack on with your goal and put your social life on hold. If you do this then all passed in 8 months then on to the fun bit. Ignore this advise then you'll be still doing ground school in 12 months with failed exams, re-sits & possible re-course or termination (though this is vary rare).
Uplinker has a valid point. Some students do very well (many now captains after 7-8 years) while others struggle or find nothing doing, if you can get accepted on a scheme this would really improve your chances - note NO GUARANTEES in this business despite what the sales people will spin you.
Last edited by RichardH; 10th Mar 2015 at 16:54.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Nottingham
Age: 30
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for all the replies!
I think the general consensus is that if I get my head down then there shouldn't be too much problem with the exams. If the volume of the content is the main obstacle in this, then I'll bear that in mind when starting groundschool.
Uplinker, I appreciate the warning regarding the training cost, but thats the risk most of us are having to take nowadays. I don't mind being a bit late on the property ladder if it means landing my dream job!
Richard, I suppose the biggest difference from university is turning up in an actual smart uniform! I will be applying for all of the part-sponsored schemes (BA, easyJet, etc.) next year when I graduate, so if I could get accepted onto one of those that would be very ideal!
I appreciate all the advice and useful info
I think the general consensus is that if I get my head down then there shouldn't be too much problem with the exams. If the volume of the content is the main obstacle in this, then I'll bear that in mind when starting groundschool.
Uplinker, I appreciate the warning regarding the training cost, but thats the risk most of us are having to take nowadays. I don't mind being a bit late on the property ladder if it means landing my dream job!
Richard, I suppose the biggest difference from university is turning up in an actual smart uniform! I will be applying for all of the part-sponsored schemes (BA, easyJet, etc.) next year when I graduate, so if I could get accepted onto one of those that would be very ideal!
I appreciate all the advice and useful info
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: London
Age: 36
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi tommowg,
I am currently half way through my ATPLs (8 down) and would have to say that I haven't had too much difficulty with any one thing in particular. As everyone else says, its the volume that really overwhelms you. If you are used to knuckling down with university work/dissertation then you should be quite capable of managing it though ; )
I am currently half way through my ATPLs (8 down) and would have to say that I haven't had too much difficulty with any one thing in particular. As everyone else says, its the volume that really overwhelms you. If you are used to knuckling down with university work/dissertation then you should be quite capable of managing it though ; )
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi tommowg,
I am currently half way through my ATPLs (8 down) and would have to say that I haven't had too much difficulty with any one thing in particular. As everyone else says, its the volume that really overwhelms you. If you are used to knuckling down with university work/dissertation then you should be quite capable of managing it though ; )
I am currently half way through my ATPLs (8 down) and would have to say that I haven't had too much difficulty with any one thing in particular. As everyone else says, its the volume that really overwhelms you. If you are used to knuckling down with university work/dissertation then you should be quite capable of managing it though ; )
You'll be fine with the content, it's just the volume that can cause a little stress. Nothing is a specialty, it's just all very broad.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Probably walking the dog
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey tommowg,
I finished full time education 8 years prior to starting my ATPLs and I didn't find the material too difficult, broken record time but it is very much the quantity of information you need to absorb here rather than overly difficult concepts.
The thing I found hardest was to get back into the intense study mindset, and as you will find having just finished a degree it shouldn't be too tough for you. My coursemates who had just finished Uni seemed to be able to hit the ground running but it took a valuable 3 weeks or so for my cogs to get up to speed (especially as we started with POF!)
If you're used to studying from 8am to 9pm on weekdays and at least 4 hours per day at a weekend then you should be grand, that was my regime and I managed mid 90's % average. Hope that helps!
I finished full time education 8 years prior to starting my ATPLs and I didn't find the material too difficult, broken record time but it is very much the quantity of information you need to absorb here rather than overly difficult concepts.
The thing I found hardest was to get back into the intense study mindset, and as you will find having just finished a degree it shouldn't be too tough for you. My coursemates who had just finished Uni seemed to be able to hit the ground running but it took a valuable 3 weeks or so for my cogs to get up to speed (especially as we started with POF!)
If you're used to studying from 8am to 9pm on weekdays and at least 4 hours per day at a weekend then you should be grand, that was my regime and I managed mid 90's % average. Hope that helps!
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ATPL theory is not too difficult, not as much as some people say it is. If you are doing the Integrated course, it'll be quicker than the Modular. When starting subjects like Human Performance and Air Law, there is not much to them at all...in fact it's nothing but a memory game. But when you hit General Navigation and Meteorology, they can take a few days to settle in to and get focused on what's happening. What ever you do, do not panic. You will ALWAYS get your head around the topics, especially with a degree in Physics!
I'm just coming up to finishing my second of three ATPL Theory modules, all the tough subjects in this one �� But certainly doable! Can't wait to start flying
I'm just coming up to finishing my second of three ATPL Theory modules, all the tough subjects in this one �� But certainly doable! Can't wait to start flying
Last edited by TheSkiingPilot; 3rd May 2015 at 08:38.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are the mocks, for example at FTE Jerez, harder than the actual EASAs? Been getting god results in them but want to be sure they are a good indicator.
Regarding the difficulty level of the exams, from an academic standpoint and as previously mentioned, it's not that difficult and one certainly don't need a degree to get your head around the stuff! What's rather more of a challenge is the sheer volume of all the subjects, it's overwhelming! My advise would be to get an overview and brake it into small pieces, work mainly with the Question Bank, make your notes accordingly (for later review -very important) and at the final stages focus on your weak areas/subject(s).
Another thing which I found quite helpful, the list which shows the distribution of questions per subject for the final exams, your flight school should be able to provide such a list.
Thanks for the replies guys-really useful. Passed 5 but got 2 retakes week after next. Mocks this week. Fluffed PoF by one mark in the EASA 
and had a bad day with Gnav (68% 
) but this weeks mocks gone SO much better. Managed 95% with PoF yesterday. Gnav tomorrow so fingers crossed. Certainly been easier giving my focus to the two rather than seven!
and had a bad day with Gnav (68% ) but this weeks mocks gone SO much better. Managed 95% with PoF yesterday. Gnav tomorrow so fingers crossed. Certainly been easier giving my focus to the two rather than seven!
Educated Hillbilly
A long time since I did mine, but what I remember about GNAV, is it was quite tight time-wise, the only exam where I didn't get time to go back and recheck the answers three times over.
BWS,
Did you manage to answer all the questions in the time or did you find you ran out of time on GNAV?
Better to answer 85% of the paper accurately that rush 100% of the paper.
BWS,
Did you manage to answer all the questions in the time or did you find you ran out of time on GNAV?
Better to answer 85% of the paper accurately that rush 100% of the paper.
I think you're right Ports. I think I'm probably rushing to get everything answered and consequently losing accuracy because of that. It's the one subject, for some reason, I'm finding a real slog.
Educated Hillbilly
Again I don't know if they have changed the format since I did mine. But I do recall that four questions could be linked ie: the ground speed from the first question is needed to calculated the time for the following. So one mistake can actually lead to you getting two to 4 more questions wrong.
So I believe you can't really afford to get anything wrong, put it this way if you take 98 % of the exam time to accurately answer 80% of the paper and you then just put guesses for the remaining 20% in the last 2 minutes, in theory by probability you should still get 5% for guessing 20% (1 in 4 correctly guessed).
Small margin for error the 80 % answered accurately then you should still come out with an 80% mark.
That's is my logic. I didn't have to do a single resit. GNAV as said is the only exam which had me working to the last moment.
I also recall that ridiculous accuracy was needed when using the CRP, something you will never use in actual IFR flying. So I always used a 0.5 mm lead engineering pencil with a small tri square to mark and measure the position on the CRP (so better to have one without the wind-arm).
So I believe you can't really afford to get anything wrong, put it this way if you take 98 % of the exam time to accurately answer 80% of the paper and you then just put guesses for the remaining 20% in the last 2 minutes, in theory by probability you should still get 5% for guessing 20% (1 in 4 correctly guessed).
Small margin for error the 80 % answered accurately then you should still come out with an 80% mark.
That's is my logic. I didn't have to do a single resit. GNAV as said is the only exam which had me working to the last moment.
I also recall that ridiculous accuracy was needed when using the CRP, something you will never use in actual IFR flying. So I always used a 0.5 mm lead engineering pencil with a small tri square to mark and measure the position on the CRP (so better to have one without the wind-arm).
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sunny Solihull
Age: 67
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just for the record the exams no longer have cascading questions/marks as questions pulled randomly from QB. Also note you can only take material listed as valid for the exam into the examination room.
In GN it is CRITICAL that you can use a CRP5 without having to think too much.
Can't use a CRP5 equals exam failure it's that simple, however, when learning it's more important to get the answer correct FIRST then build up speed with practice.
You also need to think of the profit to effort ratio in answering a question. For example if a question is worth 2 or 3 marks then it is worth the time & effort. However if there is a 1 mark question say on departure and it is going to take you 3 minutes to answer this is not good PE ratio and you would be better coming back to it later (if time allows after the 2/3 markers). Definition questions should be done in seconds.
At the end of the day you are after getting 75% by the easiest means possible.
If you know what you are doing it is not difficult to get 90%+ with time to spare.
Freelance ATPL GNav instructor.
In GN it is CRITICAL that you can use a CRP5 without having to think too much.
Can't use a CRP5 equals exam failure it's that simple, however, when learning it's more important to get the answer correct FIRST then build up speed with practice.
You also need to think of the profit to effort ratio in answering a question. For example if a question is worth 2 or 3 marks then it is worth the time & effort. However if there is a 1 mark question say on departure and it is going to take you 3 minutes to answer this is not good PE ratio and you would be better coming back to it later (if time allows after the 2/3 markers). Definition questions should be done in seconds.
At the end of the day you are after getting 75% by the easiest means possible.
If you know what you are doing it is not difficult to get 90%+ with time to spare.
Freelance ATPL GNav instructor.