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Best route for fATPL. (Self Sponser)

Old 8th Feb 2015, 03:05
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Talking Best route for fATPL. (Self Sponser)

Hello, this is my first time with this forum, first time even posting a thread on any forum in fact. I apologize if I'm doing this wrong tho.

My name is Adam, from Singapore and I'm 21 this year (in OCT 2015) .
I have always wanted to be a pilot. I currently have zero actual flight experience. I had just completed my compulsory 2 years Nation Service as a police officer in Singapore. I currently have 5 credits O levels, which includes English, Maths and Science.

I wish to take a fATPL course. However, not in Singapore. I am leaning towards Perth (Australia) , or the UK. I am planning to embark on my journey to be a pilot in early 2016. I am not sure if I should do my foundation then degree first or to obtain my fATPL and later study part time degree while working to get my hours up to 1500 to unfreeze my ATPL which I would later use to apply with an airliner.

I am not planning to stay in Singapore, I would be getting a PR in Australia and live in Perth. I need some advice on which route should I take to hopefully be a pilot for an airliner one day.

Would it be good to do it in Perth WA? And if yes, which schools are recommended? After I obtain my fATPL, is there work available in Perth WA to increase my hours? Maybe as a flight instructor or taxi etc.

Another question I have is about being a commercial pilot itself. If I do become a commercial pilot one day, for example for Emirates, where would I be stationed at? If I plan to work and stay in Perth WA, which airlines am I to aim for?

I thank you in advance for your kind replyies. I hope to hear from anyone soon.
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Old 8th Feb 2015, 10:31
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PPRuNe Handmaiden
 
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Firstly, where can you work? i.e. what passport do you have? Can you get visas?
Secondly, where do you want to work as an airline pilot?

Both those questions will help narrow down the suitable places to train.

On the face of it, I would suggest Australia. The CASA licence is recognised in Asia. Perth is close (relatively) to Singapore but don't overlook Adelaide etc.
Work wise post training, there is instructing or you can try your luck in the Territory or Kimberley as a bush pilot. A lot of fun, lots of hours and great experience.
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Old 8th Feb 2015, 22:24
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Thank you for your kind reply.

Anyways, I'm open minded to where to work. However, I'm not staying in Asia. I would be trying to apply a PR in Australia, I have siblings that are currently PRs there.

Currently holding a Singapore passport.

My aim, similar to other aspiring pilots out there, is to fly with a commercial airliner. My dream is to one day, fly for Emirates.

Another thing is, I often get confused with ATPL and CPL (IR).

In regards to that, there is a school in Perth,WA that I have been eyeing. Western Australia Avation College (WAAC). I know they offer CPLs, I'm incline with taking my license there, however I would prefer to take my f(ATPL) straight. Any advice on where I could take my fATPL a in UK/Australia region? Thank you in advance.
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Old 9th Feb 2015, 05:53
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Adam,

If you training in Australia, you have to do the 7 commercial subjects and then take the 7 ATPL subjects.....you must get a pass in all CPL subjects first

In the UK, you can take all 14 ATPL exams straight away assuming you have a PPL - if not the another 7 subjects ...


Pick a place were you want to work and then study there
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Old 9th Feb 2015, 06:47
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I still have not made up my mind. Still doing my research, thinking about cost of living, work, family.

Anyone have any advice on which country is better for a commercial pilot?
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Old 10th Feb 2015, 02:51
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Adam, are you familiar with exactly what licence is what ie CPL, ATPL, and the utterly non-existent 'rrozen ATPL'? I posted a primer to this quite a long time ago. It's one of the sticky topics in the Wannabes forum. It might be useful to you.

No school in Oz can give you an ATPL**. They *ALL* train you for a CPL + IR (and possibly ATPL theory). Once that's done, the marketing dickheads then have the gall to market this as a frozen ATPL, as if what they offer is somehow different to gaining a CPL+IR+ATPL theory from any other school, or combination of schools.

Also note that Oz has made getting an ATPL more difficult than it used to be, with added requirements for additional training courses and a flight test.


**with a caveat: They could offer some form of employment after training that causes you to accrue hours towards the ATPL minimum. No guarantee of employment though *and* you should expect to receive at least the award pay rate. You should not be paying to work for some company. Those that expect some salary sacrifice or you pay to fly (because you are 'gaining experience') are scum and just using you to bolster the owner's profits.

Last edited by Tinstaafl; 10th Feb 2015 at 19:24.
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Old 10th Feb 2015, 08:55
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Hello, thank you for your kind reply.

Firstly, I thank you for the useful information.

However, am I right? To what I understammd, CPL+IR with ATPL theory is eqavilant to ATPL, with the hours of course.

I want to be an airline pilot, I understand I need an ATPL for that.

Now I am considering a flying school, Stapleford UK. Which I believe offers ATPL.

There is another option too, in Singapore, Singapore Avation College. Which offers 11 months ground school in SG, and another 14 months in Jandakot Perth. Which is CPL IR, they do offer ATPL theory too.

Any advice on which path should I take? THANK YOU (:
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Old 10th Feb 2015, 10:08
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The UK/EASA ATPL is eye wateringly expensive. Given that you cannot work in Europe I wouldn't bother with it.

In Europe, you'll graduate with a CPL/IR with ATPL subjects completed. After you have obtained 1500 hours (various breakdowns of what's required) you can sit the Licence Skills Test (LST), usually done in the sim on the type you're flying and then you'll hold the ATPL.

In Australia, you'll finish training with a CPL and IR with ATPL subjects completed.
You cannot get an ATPL from a flight school. (As Tinstaafl has said).

Emirates requires a few thousand hours on aircraft like the B737 or the A320 (etc) so it won't be your first job.

I would consider the Singapore college.
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Old 10th Feb 2015, 19:39
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Adam..

A CPL/IR + ATPL theory is *NOT* an equivalent to ATPL, no matter how many marketing departments & schools keep referring to that combination as a 'frozen ATPL'. It's exactly what it says: A Commercial Pilot Licence + Instrument Rating + passes in the ATPL exams - and nothing to do with being the holder of an ATPL.



As Redsnail & I have written NO flying school offers an ATPL ie you graduate from the school holding an ATPL. You will graduate with a CPL, a multi-engine instrument rating, approximately 250 hours, and passes in the ATPL exams. And that's it. Not even close to the 1500 hours required plus whatever subtotals the applicable regulatory authority specifies.

Eventually, and only after you accrue the necessary flying experience and pass a suitable flight test, will you hold an ATPL with its privileges & limitations. Until then you will hold a CPL, with the privileges & limitations of that licence. In some places that's sufficiently qualified to work for an airline as a co-pilot, in other places the rules don't allow that.

However having just the minimum, entry level qualification & experience doesn't guarantee that an airline will employ you.

Read this link for some background information http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...sked-here.html. There have been some regulatory changes since I wrote it, however it's mostly still correct.

Last edited by Tinstaafl; 11th Feb 2015 at 04:48.
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Old 10th Feb 2015, 23:12
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Thank you Red Snail and Tinstaafl for your kind reply.

Thank you, I now understand it. I'd probably be taking my CPL IR first in either Simgapore (which is from Perth too) or in Perth Australia itself. I am considering WAAC, any advice on that?

I'd be taking my CPL IR, with that, I'd be finding a job suitable for me, while building my hours and experience. Later, I'd start with ATPL theory when I'm close to my req hours. Would that be a good route?

Thank you.
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Old 12th Feb 2015, 09:53
  #11 (permalink)  

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Assuming you can work in Australia, then your plan is reasonable.

Most people get their CPL/IR out of the way and then head "North" to the Kimberley etc for the season. Then return to Perth/Sydney/Melbourne to sit the ATPL exams. That's one way. Or you can do them before you head off looking for work. Ideally, you want them done before looking for a twin or turbine job.

Other folks get Instructor ratings. This can be a good strategy if you can gain employment soon after.

Good luck.
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Old 12th Feb 2015, 11:15
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Thank you Red Snail,

After much consideration, I have decided to start my CPL/IR in WAAC Perth Australia. After completion of my CPL/IR, I would hopefully work while building my hours. When I'm close, I'd start with my ATPL theory etc. Since I have a handful of relatives over in Australia, I had made my decision. Thank you so much for your kind advice. Cheers.
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