wannabes, would you do it ?
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wannabes, would you do it ?
For those wannabes with frozen ATPL's or about to get their licenses.
Under the current hiring climate, would you pay for a type rating if offered a flying job on satisfactory completion of the course ?
would the type of a/c realy matter ?
Cheers
Under the current hiring climate, would you pay for a type rating if offered a flying job on satisfactory completion of the course ?
would the type of a/c realy matter ?
Cheers
Aeronavigant
Firstly, a word of caution. There have been quite a few scams involving prospective pilots paying for type ratings to be employed by mythical companies. I would suggest checking with a BALPA and/or the IPA before you open ypur cheque book. I was approached by just such a con artist in the early 90's and thankfully I smelt a rat and steered well clear of him. The training itself was genuine but the supposed contacts with the airlines were false. The last thing I heard was that the police were going to investigate him.
Secondly, even in these tough times I feel most reputable employers will pay for the type rating and then bond you afterwards. My first job was with a low cost start up airline and that was exactly what they did. Likewise a friend of mine who qualified two years ago. I think for an already qualified line pilot it may make sense to pay for a type rating eg. as did some ex Dan Air and Air Europe pilots did. However, if you are looking for that elusive first job I suggest that you don't pay for a rating but if you do, the best of luck!
BBK
Firstly, a word of caution. There have been quite a few scams involving prospective pilots paying for type ratings to be employed by mythical companies. I would suggest checking with a BALPA and/or the IPA before you open ypur cheque book. I was approached by just such a con artist in the early 90's and thankfully I smelt a rat and steered well clear of him. The training itself was genuine but the supposed contacts with the airlines were false. The last thing I heard was that the police were going to investigate him.
Secondly, even in these tough times I feel most reputable employers will pay for the type rating and then bond you afterwards. My first job was with a low cost start up airline and that was exactly what they did. Likewise a friend of mine who qualified two years ago. I think for an already qualified line pilot it may make sense to pay for a type rating eg. as did some ex Dan Air and Air Europe pilots did. However, if you are looking for that elusive first job I suggest that you don't pay for a rating but if you do, the best of luck!
BBK
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No absolutely not!!!
I have been in this game for many years now and during this time, I have been employed, unemployed, inexperienced, experienced, basically I've seen the lot. Bearing all this in mind, I have never seen the need to what can only be described as prostitute myself in order to buy a job.
I can also say hand on heart that in my early days I was offered a job on the condition that I first paid for the type rating and subsequently refused it on those grounds.
My firm opinion is that people who do sell themselves in this fashion hurt themselves, their colleagues, the industry and generally hold back pay and conditions for everyone.
I have been in this game for many years now and during this time, I have been employed, unemployed, inexperienced, experienced, basically I've seen the lot. Bearing all this in mind, I have never seen the need to what can only be described as prostitute myself in order to buy a job.
I can also say hand on heart that in my early days I was offered a job on the condition that I first paid for the type rating and subsequently refused it on those grounds.
My firm opinion is that people who do sell themselves in this fashion hurt themselves, their colleagues, the industry and generally hold back pay and conditions for everyone.
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Hello all,
ElNino,
No i do not know of other airlines/operators that have such scheme apart from Ryanair.
However, if you remember millennium airlines did make that offer but i steered very well clear of them as they look very suspicious.
Virgin Blue in down under makes their pilots pay for their 737 type rating but then they refund it back in a couple of years work.
BBK
Thank you for your advice, i am not faced with anyone offering me such transaction at the moment, i simply asked the question coz i know that there are lots of honest and good frozen ATPL pilots out there that do not stand a chance to be picked up in the current sluggish hiring climate. that is all...
Otherwise i appreciate your concern and would pass it on to all my mates.
Easy Glider
I beg to differ from your opinion saying it is like prostitution and downgrading of the whole industry.
There are few start ups ( have an AOC and operating already) that have had lots of problems with expat entry level guys that work and then split once they have gotten enough hours on their logbook.
I know of a particular case where lawsuits against entry level pilot who had their type rating paid for by the company who left without notice when they found another job.
Under current circumstances, i see it as a reasonable request by SOME (and only some operators) to ask for the candidate to pay for their type rating.
That way, if you decide to leave for any reason, you can do so without shame or worries of being sued in international courts.
I am talking about real operators with whom you can have contact.
It is a changing industry, i personaly think that in the near future this marketplace will still be oversaturated with pilots.
Honestly, i even think this industry was saturated prior to 9/11 but badly run companies used as an occasion to blame their poor status.
I could understand your point of view, but times are changing, not everyone is playing on a level field.
ElNino,
No i do not know of other airlines/operators that have such scheme apart from Ryanair.
However, if you remember millennium airlines did make that offer but i steered very well clear of them as they look very suspicious.
Virgin Blue in down under makes their pilots pay for their 737 type rating but then they refund it back in a couple of years work.
BBK
Thank you for your advice, i am not faced with anyone offering me such transaction at the moment, i simply asked the question coz i know that there are lots of honest and good frozen ATPL pilots out there that do not stand a chance to be picked up in the current sluggish hiring climate. that is all...
Otherwise i appreciate your concern and would pass it on to all my mates.
Easy Glider
I beg to differ from your opinion saying it is like prostitution and downgrading of the whole industry.
There are few start ups ( have an AOC and operating already) that have had lots of problems with expat entry level guys that work and then split once they have gotten enough hours on their logbook.
I know of a particular case where lawsuits against entry level pilot who had their type rating paid for by the company who left without notice when they found another job.
Under current circumstances, i see it as a reasonable request by SOME (and only some operators) to ask for the candidate to pay for their type rating.
That way, if you decide to leave for any reason, you can do so without shame or worries of being sued in international courts.
I am talking about real operators with whom you can have contact.
It is a changing industry, i personaly think that in the near future this marketplace will still be oversaturated with pilots.
Honestly, i even think this industry was saturated prior to 9/11 but badly run companies used as an occasion to blame their poor status.
I could understand your point of view, but times are changing, not everyone is playing on a level field.
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By getting an FATPL, you pay €X,000's to get into a position to MAYBE be eligible for a job. If there was a reputable operator offering a guaranteed job on successful completion of a type rating, why (assuming you could afford it) not go the extra mile to land a job?
I don't see how paying money to not be eligible for jobs is not prostitution, while paying more to gain eligability is...
I'm not saying I agree with the practice, but surely its better to be gaining experience and getting paid instead of serving burgers.
I don't see how paying money to not be eligible for jobs is not prostitution, while paying more to gain eligability is...
I'm not saying I agree with the practice, but surely its better to be gaining experience and getting paid instead of serving burgers.
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Stick Flying
First of all you need to relax a bit, you must have had a bad day at work.
I have nothing against expats. Your quote about them taking “ My Job” and then insulting me, just shows how you drifted off the subject for no reason.
Sorry but have a grip on your emotions, Take a chill pill….
I never stated any of the above remarks in my posts. Besides I am currently seeking work in an expat environment.
My point was, there are people that build a bad reputation for their colleagues in the profession. Especially in small limited circles.
You speak of reputable airlines, I am not discussing on that level. I speak of small operators in general.
Most entry-level pilots do not have a choice of joining reputable airlines. They have got to seek work anywhere. If you present yourself to a job in the current climate only to be told to get type rated, as we have had people breaking their work contracts after we trained them. How would you feel?
Have you heard of independent contract pilots in the US? They pay for their type ratings (up to 50K USD) and sit home waiting for freelance work. Would you classify that as prostitution?
I appreciate your advice though. I am not faced with this choice now or yet.
But I would seriously consider it if offered.
Aeronavigant.
First of all you need to relax a bit, you must have had a bad day at work.
I have nothing against expats. Your quote about them taking “ My Job” and then insulting me, just shows how you drifted off the subject for no reason.
Sorry but have a grip on your emotions, Take a chill pill….
I never stated any of the above remarks in my posts. Besides I am currently seeking work in an expat environment.
My point was, there are people that build a bad reputation for their colleagues in the profession. Especially in small limited circles.
You speak of reputable airlines, I am not discussing on that level. I speak of small operators in general.
Most entry-level pilots do not have a choice of joining reputable airlines. They have got to seek work anywhere. If you present yourself to a job in the current climate only to be told to get type rated, as we have had people breaking their work contracts after we trained them. How would you feel?
Have you heard of independent contract pilots in the US? They pay for their type ratings (up to 50K USD) and sit home waiting for freelance work. Would you classify that as prostitution?
I appreciate your advice though. I am not faced with this choice now or yet.
But I would seriously consider it if offered.
Aeronavigant.
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About October last year, a pal of mine, did a Citation rating in the states on the back of a job offer over here, it was delayed slightly due to Sept 11 fallout, but about January he was on his line training.
Possibly slightly different in the business jet world, less costs I presume, but it worked in his favour.
GV
Possibly slightly different in the business jet world, less costs I presume, but it worked in his favour.
GV
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Stick Flying
I am not saying ALL expatriates are as such!
In this particular case, locals are a numbered minority and DO NOT have options of seeking work with the degree of freedom available to you or me.
Try to see the other side’s point of view.
That is all.
As for paying for the TR, I understand all your concerns and agree with you on the circumstances.
Let the situation and the circumstances be the elements of the decision.
Please do not confuse this with people that go and buy hours in blocks
That is a completely different matter.
Cheers
I am not saying ALL expatriates are as such!
In this particular case, locals are a numbered minority and DO NOT have options of seeking work with the degree of freedom available to you or me.
Try to see the other side’s point of view.
That is all.
As for paying for the TR, I understand all your concerns and agree with you on the circumstances.
Let the situation and the circumstances be the elements of the decision.
Please do not confuse this with people that go and buy hours in blocks
That is a completely different matter.
Cheers
