JAR Compliant PPL ok for Modular Training?
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JAR Compliant PPL ok for Modular Training?
I'm just heard about a type of PPL, which gives the privileges of the JAA PPL, is cheaper and includes a night rating.
I'm looking to take the route to a fATPL and obviously need to save as much money as possible.
Will I be damaging my chances of getting a fATPL (either financially or with future employers) if I take this licence? Being the cynical type - there must be a catch, or is it all legit?
The course leads to a ICAO JAR Compliant PPL. The school is in the USA. It allows you to fly in any ICAO Contracting State.
Here's the FAQ's the school's sent me:
"
1. Can I fly a British Registered aircraft in UK airspace on the JAR Compliant PPL?
Answer: Yes you can.
2. Am I restricted to day flying only in the UK on a JAR Compliant PPL?
Answer: No. Unlike the JAA PPL, the JAR Compliant PPL includes a Night Rating, which will give you night privileges in UK airspace in a British Registered Aircraft.
3. How long is my JAA and JAR Compliant PPL certificate valid for?
Answer: JAA PPL : 5 years - JAR Compliant PPL : For Life
4. If I decide that I want a JAA PPL can you provide it?
Answer: Yes. As we have a resident JAA Examiner and UK Flight Training is a JAR Approved Flight Training Oganisation you can complete the JAA PPL with us.
5. If I want to pursue a JAA CPL do I need the JAA PPL?
Answer: No. The flight requirements for the JAA CPL Modular Course are that you hold an ICAO PPL with a Night Rating with a total of 150 hours. You are in fact better off with the JAR Compliant PPL as, unlike the JAA PPL, it includes a Night Rating.
6. Can I fly a British Registered Aircraft from the UK to another European Country on a JAR Compliant PPL?
Answer: Yes you can. Yours License is an ICAO License, exactly the same as a JAR License. This means that your License is recognised in all ICAO Contracting States without prior permission. There are 187 countries that are Contracting Member States of the ICAO.
7. How can I fly in Instrument Conditions in the UK?
Answer: If you wish, you may complete the ICAO (FAA) IR. We would then convert your PPL to the JAR PPL. The British CAA will then automatically grant you the British IMC (Instrument) Rating. The advantage of this is that you will not be required to complete a Currency Flight Test every 25 months with a Flight Examiner.
8. What are the differences between an ICAO (FAA) IR and the IMC Rating?
Answer: The IMC Rating is a very basic version of the full Instrument Rating valid only within the UK, which allows you to fly out of sight the ground outside controlled airspace. It is a short course designed specifically for the PPL Pilot. The ICAO (FAA) IR is a very much more comprehensive course which includes full airways training. Without doubt you will be a far better Instrument Pilot with the ICAO (FAA) IR. Another advantage is that you will be able to fly full airways while you are in the USA.
9. Can I complete the ICAO (FAA) IR with the JAA PPL?
Answer: Yes you can. The ICAO (FAA) IR will give you IMC privileges in the UK. If you are flying an American Registered aircraft anywhere in the world you will have FULL IR PRIVILIGES. To keep the ICAO (FAA) IR current you have to fly 6 instrument approaches per 6 months. If you fail to do this then you have to fly 6 approaches with a Safety Pilot to revalidate. For the IMC Rating you have to complete an IMC Flight Test with a JAA Examiner every 25 months.
10. Is an ICAO (FAA) Multi Engine Rating valid in UK airspace?
Answer: Yes it is. You may fly a British Registered multi engine aircraft in UK airspace on the ICAO (FAA) Multi Engine Rating. You are not required to fly 6 sectors and 1 hour with an examiner every 12 months as required by the JAA. (Yet more savings £££!)
11. Can I convert my ICAO (FAA) Multi Engine Rating to a JAA Multi Engine Rating in the USA?
Answer: You can with UK Flight Training as we have a resident JAA Examiner. This will be free of charge as long as your training was with us.
12. If I bring any friends or family, can I take them flying on completion of my PPL?
Answer: On successful completion of the JAR Compliant PPL you will be issued with your PPL immediately therefore you will be able to carry passengers. On the JAA PPL you will have to wait until your PPL is issued to you by the CAA before you can carry passengers, this will cost £147 and take between 4 to 6 weeks.
The bottom line is that you actually have more flight privileges in the UK with a JAR COMPLIANT PPL than the JAA PPL. I KNOW THIS SOUNDS RIDICULOUS BUT IT’S TRUE! If you don’t believe me I will be happy to put you in touch with our JAA Examiner or the relevant department within the UK Civil Aviation Authority.
"
I'm looking to take the route to a fATPL and obviously need to save as much money as possible.
Will I be damaging my chances of getting a fATPL (either financially or with future employers) if I take this licence? Being the cynical type - there must be a catch, or is it all legit?
The course leads to a ICAO JAR Compliant PPL. The school is in the USA. It allows you to fly in any ICAO Contracting State.
Here's the FAQ's the school's sent me:
"
1. Can I fly a British Registered aircraft in UK airspace on the JAR Compliant PPL?
Answer: Yes you can.
2. Am I restricted to day flying only in the UK on a JAR Compliant PPL?
Answer: No. Unlike the JAA PPL, the JAR Compliant PPL includes a Night Rating, which will give you night privileges in UK airspace in a British Registered Aircraft.
3. How long is my JAA and JAR Compliant PPL certificate valid for?
Answer: JAA PPL : 5 years - JAR Compliant PPL : For Life
4. If I decide that I want a JAA PPL can you provide it?
Answer: Yes. As we have a resident JAA Examiner and UK Flight Training is a JAR Approved Flight Training Oganisation you can complete the JAA PPL with us.
5. If I want to pursue a JAA CPL do I need the JAA PPL?
Answer: No. The flight requirements for the JAA CPL Modular Course are that you hold an ICAO PPL with a Night Rating with a total of 150 hours. You are in fact better off with the JAR Compliant PPL as, unlike the JAA PPL, it includes a Night Rating.
6. Can I fly a British Registered Aircraft from the UK to another European Country on a JAR Compliant PPL?
Answer: Yes you can. Yours License is an ICAO License, exactly the same as a JAR License. This means that your License is recognised in all ICAO Contracting States without prior permission. There are 187 countries that are Contracting Member States of the ICAO.
7. How can I fly in Instrument Conditions in the UK?
Answer: If you wish, you may complete the ICAO (FAA) IR. We would then convert your PPL to the JAR PPL. The British CAA will then automatically grant you the British IMC (Instrument) Rating. The advantage of this is that you will not be required to complete a Currency Flight Test every 25 months with a Flight Examiner.
8. What are the differences between an ICAO (FAA) IR and the IMC Rating?
Answer: The IMC Rating is a very basic version of the full Instrument Rating valid only within the UK, which allows you to fly out of sight the ground outside controlled airspace. It is a short course designed specifically for the PPL Pilot. The ICAO (FAA) IR is a very much more comprehensive course which includes full airways training. Without doubt you will be a far better Instrument Pilot with the ICAO (FAA) IR. Another advantage is that you will be able to fly full airways while you are in the USA.
9. Can I complete the ICAO (FAA) IR with the JAA PPL?
Answer: Yes you can. The ICAO (FAA) IR will give you IMC privileges in the UK. If you are flying an American Registered aircraft anywhere in the world you will have FULL IR PRIVILIGES. To keep the ICAO (FAA) IR current you have to fly 6 instrument approaches per 6 months. If you fail to do this then you have to fly 6 approaches with a Safety Pilot to revalidate. For the IMC Rating you have to complete an IMC Flight Test with a JAA Examiner every 25 months.
10. Is an ICAO (FAA) Multi Engine Rating valid in UK airspace?
Answer: Yes it is. You may fly a British Registered multi engine aircraft in UK airspace on the ICAO (FAA) Multi Engine Rating. You are not required to fly 6 sectors and 1 hour with an examiner every 12 months as required by the JAA. (Yet more savings £££!)
11. Can I convert my ICAO (FAA) Multi Engine Rating to a JAA Multi Engine Rating in the USA?
Answer: You can with UK Flight Training as we have a resident JAA Examiner. This will be free of charge as long as your training was with us.
12. If I bring any friends or family, can I take them flying on completion of my PPL?
Answer: On successful completion of the JAR Compliant PPL you will be issued with your PPL immediately therefore you will be able to carry passengers. On the JAA PPL you will have to wait until your PPL is issued to you by the CAA before you can carry passengers, this will cost £147 and take between 4 to 6 weeks.
The bottom line is that you actually have more flight privileges in the UK with a JAR COMPLIANT PPL than the JAA PPL. I KNOW THIS SOUNDS RIDICULOUS BUT IT’S TRUE! If you don’t believe me I will be happy to put you in touch with our JAA Examiner or the relevant department within the UK Civil Aviation Authority.
"
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: UK
They are right in saying all you need is an ICAO PPL. There is no advantage to holding a JAA PPL. However, you'll still need 150hr TT before commencing the CPL module, during which time you'll be well advised to get the night requirements, amongst other things, done. Otherwise they'll have to be added to the CPL module.
So whether you complete the night within the PLL or after doesn't matter & you will not save any money. You've got to pay for 150 hours one way or another, unless someone will lend you their aeroplane for free after you have a PPL.
The other thing that many people overlook is that your CPL and later training will be much more difficult (& therefore potentially expensive) if you spend the 150 hrs boring holes in the sky. Unstructured hours’ building is a mugs game. That's how the 'cheap' schools advertise cheap Modular ATPLs (loads of hours solo VFR in a cheap ac in a cheap environment like the US costs little). In practice people often need more time later, to overcome the effects their poor early 'training,' when it's costing them £350/hr. That's what gives the modular route a dubious reputation in some quarters.
A properly constructed modular training is better than an integrated course, as it involves more training overall, and less % can be spent on limited value VFR cross-country training. A poorly constructed one is considerably worse. IMHO
So whether you complete the night within the PLL or after doesn't matter & you will not save any money. You've got to pay for 150 hours one way or another, unless someone will lend you their aeroplane for free after you have a PPL.
The other thing that many people overlook is that your CPL and later training will be much more difficult (& therefore potentially expensive) if you spend the 150 hrs boring holes in the sky. Unstructured hours’ building is a mugs game. That's how the 'cheap' schools advertise cheap Modular ATPLs (loads of hours solo VFR in a cheap ac in a cheap environment like the US costs little). In practice people often need more time later, to overcome the effects their poor early 'training,' when it's costing them £350/hr. That's what gives the modular route a dubious reputation in some quarters.
A properly constructed modular training is better than an integrated course, as it involves more training overall, and less % can be spent on limited value VFR cross-country training. A poorly constructed one is considerably worse. IMHO
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: London
It does what it says on the tin
JAR Compliant PPL!!!!
It's just an FAA PPL. They may dress it up to make it more appealing but it's just an FAA PPL or PPL/IR
You can do a PPL or PPL/IR in any ICAO contracting state and it will give you the same privileges as this FAA licence.
Even Afganistan is ICAO complient, though you would need to do Stall, Spin AND Missile avoidance training
P.S I made that last bit up
It's just an FAA PPL. They may dress it up to make it more appealing but it's just an FAA PPL or PPL/IR
You can do a PPL or PPL/IR in any ICAO contracting state and it will give you the same privileges as this FAA licence.
Even Afganistan is ICAO complient, though you would need to do Stall, Spin AND Missile avoidance training
P.S I made that last bit up
Last edited by Wibbly P; 27th May 2002 at 13:09.
