Pilot Career: Reality Check
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: UTC +8
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 10
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From: London
I notice the article doesn't mention anything about people who actually work hard and save harder in order to pay for their training with minimal (if any) debt, via the considerably cheaper option of modular training. Of course this is still a lot of money but it is rather annoying that a lot of people believe that integrated training is the only way to go!
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 151
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From: UK
Gazza88,
Those people are locked out of the profession, so don't exist or matter now.
Only way in, is via the CTC/OAA integrated monopoly or through Ryanair.
If you can't do that, it doesn't matter what your experience, hours or qualifications are...
I just can't understand why modular schools are allowing this monopoly to develop. They could be out of business, if this CTC/OAA strangle hold gets worse.
Those people are locked out of the profession, so don't exist or matter now.
Only way in, is via the CTC/OAA integrated monopoly or through Ryanair.
If you can't do that, it doesn't matter what your experience, hours or qualifications are...
I just can't understand why modular schools are allowing this monopoly to develop. They could be out of business, if this CTC/OAA strangle hold gets worse.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,804
Likes: 1
They can't do anything to stop it.
They can though afford to sit and wait for the next volcano to erupt and then the whole setup to collapse because of the sheer numbers of fresh meat that needs to be processed to keep the big schools in business.
Once the Lo cost bubble burst and they stop recruiting significant numbers then there will be some reorganisation of the market.
Once the training capacity has gone the market will re-align with market forces.
They can though afford to sit and wait for the next volcano to erupt and then the whole setup to collapse because of the sheer numbers of fresh meat that needs to be processed to keep the big schools in business.
Once the Lo cost bubble burst and they stop recruiting significant numbers then there will be some reorganisation of the market.
Once the training capacity has gone the market will re-align with market forces.
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 10
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From: London
Poose,
I agree with you to an extent but I personally know two modular students to be taken on recently by a well known airline in the UK. Admittedly this is hardly a drop in the ocean but these are just two people that I know, I'm sure there are more. These guys both worked for the airline in other departments and I think this was a major advantage.
There are plenty of jobs to be had in an airline, from engineering to ops, most of which would make a decent career should becoming a pilot prove impossible for whatever reason. In my opinion getting a job in an airline, working hard and getting your name known through hard work and a good reputation whilst completing modular training is a far better way of getting a flying job. You'd have experience of how the industry works from a different perspective, possibly making contacts within the airline, far less debt, a decent job to support yourself whilst waiting for a flying job, a back up career, more life experience in general and I think you'd be a much better pilot and person in general for it. Fair enough you might be mid-twenties by the time you get into the RHS but I'd rather wait a few years than be in 100k debt.
I don't want to turn this into a modular vs integrated debate but I honestly believe there are other ways into that RHS than to sell your soul to the likes of OAA/CTC. That's how I'm doing it anyway, perhaps I'm being naive and will never get a flying job but at least I'll have a great career already without a mortgage sized loan to pay off.
I agree with you to an extent but I personally know two modular students to be taken on recently by a well known airline in the UK. Admittedly this is hardly a drop in the ocean but these are just two people that I know, I'm sure there are more. These guys both worked for the airline in other departments and I think this was a major advantage.
There are plenty of jobs to be had in an airline, from engineering to ops, most of which would make a decent career should becoming a pilot prove impossible for whatever reason. In my opinion getting a job in an airline, working hard and getting your name known through hard work and a good reputation whilst completing modular training is a far better way of getting a flying job. You'd have experience of how the industry works from a different perspective, possibly making contacts within the airline, far less debt, a decent job to support yourself whilst waiting for a flying job, a back up career, more life experience in general and I think you'd be a much better pilot and person in general for it. Fair enough you might be mid-twenties by the time you get into the RHS but I'd rather wait a few years than be in 100k debt.
I don't want to turn this into a modular vs integrated debate but I honestly believe there are other ways into that RHS than to sell your soul to the likes of OAA/CTC. That's how I'm doing it anyway, perhaps I'm being naive and will never get a flying job but at least I'll have a great career already without a mortgage sized loan to pay off.
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: -
Gazza08. Your not being naive. I also went modular and waited 6 months for a right hand seat jet job in 2012. My friends all at the same school are all flying commercially on turboprops or regional jets in the UK. Some might have waited a year after training but the significant saving by going to our small modular school has made the world of difference to all of us financially and emotionally.
Educated Hillbilly
Joined: Dec 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,003
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From: From the Hills
Sorry if I am slightly thread drifting but consider the following.
The sad fact about this is the introduction of the JAA system in 2002 should have been the death of the integrated course. On the previous CAA system the self improver route needed 700 hours to upgrade the BCPL to the CPL.
The advantage of the integrated course (not sure what term was used then, CAP403?) prior to 2002 was it allowed a "full" CPL to be obtained at 200 hours, thus saving you the need to spend time in GA hour building. Therefore the expense of the integrated course over the self improver (you could say the CAA equivalent to JAA modular) had some justification. At that point prior to 2002 Oxfords main trade was mainly airline sponsored cadets from both the UK and international sources, so self funders at Oxford did exist but would be the minority.
With JAA allowing a full CPL to be obtained at 200 hours on the modular system then there was no good reason for the integrated course to exist.
The only thing which perpetuated the integrated course was a very clever marketing department from Oxford and trading on the past reputation.
The sad fact about this is the introduction of the JAA system in 2002 should have been the death of the integrated course. On the previous CAA system the self improver route needed 700 hours to upgrade the BCPL to the CPL.
The advantage of the integrated course (not sure what term was used then, CAP403?) prior to 2002 was it allowed a "full" CPL to be obtained at 200 hours, thus saving you the need to spend time in GA hour building. Therefore the expense of the integrated course over the self improver (you could say the CAA equivalent to JAA modular) had some justification. At that point prior to 2002 Oxfords main trade was mainly airline sponsored cadets from both the UK and international sources, so self funders at Oxford did exist but would be the minority.
With JAA allowing a full CPL to be obtained at 200 hours on the modular system then there was no good reason for the integrated course to exist.
The only thing which perpetuated the integrated course was a very clever marketing department from Oxford and trading on the past reputation.
