Line Training
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Line Training
What do you think about this initiative? I think we must put an end to this, or try to change the actual conditions at least.
linetrainings
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Targeting the 500 hours on type requirement will not do an awful lot of good I fear. Sometimes it can be insurance requirements, sometimes it can be experience requirements and other times it will be little more than a filter. My current employer has recently hired but looked for 500 on type and wouldn't even think about dis-including the requirement simply because of the shear volume of applications they get WITH the requirement. The number of applicants who would have paid for line training is likely 0 (partly due to the aircraft type).
The thought behind the idea is good, but it suggests bargaining with airlines and entering talks with them as a group of unemployed pilots. The problem is that this group holds little or no cards and therefore has little power in discussions.
This approach needs to be on a much larger scale involving a pan European pilot union which includes employed, contractors and unemployed alike.
The thought behind the idea is good, but it suggests bargaining with airlines and entering talks with them as a group of unemployed pilots. The problem is that this group holds little or no cards and therefore has little power in discussions.
This approach needs to be on a much larger scale involving a pan European pilot union which includes employed, contractors and unemployed alike.
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If the purpose is a vent for angst, then it is fine. For anything else it is poorly written, confusing and inaccurate.
"500 hours on type" or any other stipulation is usually a guideline that reflects the minimum level of experience that a company is looking for in recruiting pilots from a particular sector of the overall market. In reality that number conservatively reflects around 8-10 months worth of work with a typical airline. That is a very low level of experience given the average tenure of individual employment.
An airline might well waive this requirement in specific circumstances. For example where an airline has ceased trading, or has made pilots redundant as a result of contraction, there may be some quality applicants who don't satisfy these numbers specific to type, but do meet the specific level of quality that the recruiting airline is looking for. At the other end of the scale there may well be applicants with 3000 hours and more on type who simply don't satisfy the recruitment profile on any given occasion.
Line training is a dynamic requirement of pilot induction, and a reputable airline isn't likely to "charge" you for it. That is quite distinct from the probability that levels of remuneration may be dependent on completion of that training. For companies that sell "line training" to you as a customer, by way of a standalone package, my advice would be treat them the same way you treat e-mail pleas from the facilitation requests of the families of third world Generals!
Any respectable airline is going to look at your CV, and look at where your experience was acquired. There are companies and backgrounds that are simply going to raise great big red flags! Thereby consigning your CV to the dustbin. It really is as simple as that. Quality companies are looking for quality applicants. That quality is reflected in your background, your CV, your references (if it gets that far) and how you present yourself. Every company is different, however there are generalities that run true in all of them.
Those same quality airlines that run cadet programmes or recruit low hour pilots into their portfolio, do so on the basis that the candidates training background satisfies the airlines own quality assessment profile. Line training is a cost for the airline and it will budget a cost that represents the investment it expects. Just like anybody else, they will seek whatever sureties, guarantees, and risk offsets , that are available. They will also want ab-initio training profiles that fit in with their own perceptions, requirements, and past experience.
I have seen a lot of people employed over the years from these profile groups. I have also seen a lot of pilots employed from experienced quality sources such as the military and other airlines and other good aviation companies. I honestly haven't seen a single soul who paid for 500 hours of line training. Quite possibly that market works for some, and if it does, then best of luck to them. There are thousands and thousands of CPL holders in the marketplace. It is a very difficult marketplace. You can howl from the rooftops, but the buyers (the airlines) will buy who they want to buy irrespective of how fair or otherwise you consider that to be.
Like all markets the price is usually a reflection of supply and demand. Thinking that the market can be distorted to favour what you are selling is usually a misguided belief. Within the marketplace there is a segment devoted to luxury goods. These goods usually come with a luxury price and a very discerning customer base.
Common sense would suggest that if you want to sell your cars, apples, or personal skillsets, you should carefully research the market you are proposing to enter. Sometimes a market is simply saturated. Sometimes the market requires too high an investment to reasonably expect a satisfactory return from the number of would be buyers. Yes, you can throw yourself into the fray with high hopes and fingers crossed, but thinking you can manipulate the market to protect you from your own lack of research will only elicit sympathy from others like you who have done the same or failed for some other reason.
Good luck!
"500 hours on type" or any other stipulation is usually a guideline that reflects the minimum level of experience that a company is looking for in recruiting pilots from a particular sector of the overall market. In reality that number conservatively reflects around 8-10 months worth of work with a typical airline. That is a very low level of experience given the average tenure of individual employment.
An airline might well waive this requirement in specific circumstances. For example where an airline has ceased trading, or has made pilots redundant as a result of contraction, there may be some quality applicants who don't satisfy these numbers specific to type, but do meet the specific level of quality that the recruiting airline is looking for. At the other end of the scale there may well be applicants with 3000 hours and more on type who simply don't satisfy the recruitment profile on any given occasion.
Line training is a dynamic requirement of pilot induction, and a reputable airline isn't likely to "charge" you for it. That is quite distinct from the probability that levels of remuneration may be dependent on completion of that training. For companies that sell "line training" to you as a customer, by way of a standalone package, my advice would be treat them the same way you treat e-mail pleas from the facilitation requests of the families of third world Generals!
Any respectable airline is going to look at your CV, and look at where your experience was acquired. There are companies and backgrounds that are simply going to raise great big red flags! Thereby consigning your CV to the dustbin. It really is as simple as that. Quality companies are looking for quality applicants. That quality is reflected in your background, your CV, your references (if it gets that far) and how you present yourself. Every company is different, however there are generalities that run true in all of them.
Those same quality airlines that run cadet programmes or recruit low hour pilots into their portfolio, do so on the basis that the candidates training background satisfies the airlines own quality assessment profile. Line training is a cost for the airline and it will budget a cost that represents the investment it expects. Just like anybody else, they will seek whatever sureties, guarantees, and risk offsets , that are available. They will also want ab-initio training profiles that fit in with their own perceptions, requirements, and past experience.
I have seen a lot of people employed over the years from these profile groups. I have also seen a lot of pilots employed from experienced quality sources such as the military and other airlines and other good aviation companies. I honestly haven't seen a single soul who paid for 500 hours of line training. Quite possibly that market works for some, and if it does, then best of luck to them. There are thousands and thousands of CPL holders in the marketplace. It is a very difficult marketplace. You can howl from the rooftops, but the buyers (the airlines) will buy who they want to buy irrespective of how fair or otherwise you consider that to be.
Like all markets the price is usually a reflection of supply and demand. Thinking that the market can be distorted to favour what you are selling is usually a misguided belief. Within the marketplace there is a segment devoted to luxury goods. These goods usually come with a luxury price and a very discerning customer base.
Common sense would suggest that if you want to sell your cars, apples, or personal skillsets, you should carefully research the market you are proposing to enter. Sometimes a market is simply saturated. Sometimes the market requires too high an investment to reasonably expect a satisfactory return from the number of would be buyers. Yes, you can throw yourself into the fray with high hopes and fingers crossed, but thinking you can manipulate the market to protect you from your own lack of research will only elicit sympathy from others like you who have done the same or failed for some other reason.
Good luck!
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There is a fairly common misconception amongst wannabe pilots that the purpose of the airline industry is to provide employment for pilots. This leads to comments like these from the petition:
Aspiring pilots need to get their heads around the fact that airlines exist to sell seats to passengers and make profit for shareholders. Creating a finite amount of employment for pilots is merely a convenient side effect. Airlines can set any minimum requirements they like for their own business, and if every muppet pays for 500hrs training, airlines will set their minima at 1000hrs to achieve the same filtering of candidates.
You don't need petitions and government intervention here. You can achieve the same result simply by not signing up for dubious schemes from blacklisted third world airlines.
The uncomfortable effect is that some people would effectively chop themselves from the employment marketplace at an earlier stage. The alternative is doing the same having dropped a further 50K on a dodgy P2F scheme. Fewer pilots entering the profession is the best solution but too many refuse to realistically appraise their prospects when they can simply throw money at the problem and hope for the best.
Petitions like this and grumbling about unfairness will not actually create extra jobs.
We want to work, we need to work, we are JAA/EASA pilots.
It is extremely unfair for a pilot who won their "wings" are remitted to silence and unemployment
We are pilots who studied hard to have our wings and we will not accept this situation to continue
You don't need petitions and government intervention here. You can achieve the same result simply by not signing up for dubious schemes from blacklisted third world airlines.
The uncomfortable effect is that some people would effectively chop themselves from the employment marketplace at an earlier stage. The alternative is doing the same having dropped a further 50K on a dodgy P2F scheme. Fewer pilots entering the profession is the best solution but too many refuse to realistically appraise their prospects when they can simply throw money at the problem and hope for the best.
Petitions like this and grumbling about unfairness will not actually create extra jobs.
