Computer Flight Simulations for Training
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Hi Scroggs
In reply to your post 'but then simulating a multi-crew environment is always going to be problemmatic on a computer!'
No longer an issue with the next version, you can fly multiplayer with one pilot flying and the pther non flying using the radios. It's somehting they're pushing so much but I think it will really add to the experience.
In reply to your post 'but then simulating a multi-crew environment is always going to be problemmatic on a computer!'
No longer an issue with the next version, you can fly multiplayer with one pilot flying and the pther non flying using the radios. It's somehting they're pushing so much but I think it will really add to the experience.
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It might add to it, but it won't simulate the reality. Unless your online colleague is right next to you, it's going to be a very strange experience interacting with someone miles away who's pretending to be in the same 2-metre square space as you are! It sounds just a little bit wierd to me.
Scroggs
Scroggs
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Hi
It is a little weird, but believe me it can feel very real. You can chat to your co-pilot using a headset, when you're heading into a busy airport with someone acting as a controller it's pretty realistic, calling out checklist items and dividing up the workload. For a game it's as close as you can get without sitting in a real sim or cockpit.
It is a little weird, but believe me it can feel very real. You can chat to your co-pilot using a headset, when you're heading into a busy airport with someone acting as a controller it's pretty realistic, calling out checklist items and dividing up the workload. For a game it's as close as you can get without sitting in a real sim or cockpit.
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Holy sh**, scroggs, you're among the coolest guys I ever met. Not playing around simulating. Plain cool!
For all of us Nerds here's something you may like when thinking about "Multi-Crew" in FS2004:
http://www.fs2crew.com/
Best Regards
Cole
For all of us Nerds here's something you may like when thinking about "Multi-Crew" in FS2004:
http://www.fs2crew.com/
Best Regards
Cole
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Flight Simulator
FS2004 - A pilot who came into our school (BAs youngest captain ever!) mentioned that flight simulator is good for helping to learn, and to keep up to skills....yet i have heard others mention that it is near useless. What are your opinions??? Thanks.
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Flight Sim
I found it to be really helpful when I did my IMC; especially when practicing procedural ILS's, non-precision approaches and holds. The map feature will show an outline of your progress in the horizontal plane so you can keep track of how good or how bad your procedures actually were. A few hours of flight sim (or even other packages which are more geared towards instrument training) can help to reduce costs in your training and maintain a little currency when it comes to instrument flying
I do not believe that MSFS is very good for hand flying in any aircraft and the advantage gained by doing so is minimal. There is however one area that MSFS is superb for and that is to get familiar with complex aircraft types prior to doing an MCC, or a Type Rating.
I did my MCC on the A320 and have just recently attended CTC's AQC on the 737-700. I have to say the knowledge gained on MSFS was invaluable and it enabled me to be comfortable with the aircraft automatics, systems, switch positions and displays. This additional knowledge creates spare mental capacity to deal with flying the aircraft, maintaining situational awareness and staying ahead of the aircraft.
MSFS on its own is of no use whatsoever. You'll need to purchase an add-on for whichever type you are looking to gain knowledge of. For the A320 I used Phoenix Simulations A320 and for the 737 I used PMDG's 737NG (You'll need 600/700 & 800/900 versions to enable the displays to be configured in the CTC/easyjet PFD/ND format, rather than the Boeing standard 6 dial efis).
Other add ons that I can recommend are Wilco Publishing PIC 737-300/400/500, Level D simulations 767 and PMDG 747-400.
All of these add-ons have FMC's which are between 75% and 90% functional and numerous other systems that are 100% accurate. PMDG are also due to be bringing out an A320 soon which promises to be much better than the Phoenix A320.
Hope this helps.
SW
I did my MCC on the A320 and have just recently attended CTC's AQC on the 737-700. I have to say the knowledge gained on MSFS was invaluable and it enabled me to be comfortable with the aircraft automatics, systems, switch positions and displays. This additional knowledge creates spare mental capacity to deal with flying the aircraft, maintaining situational awareness and staying ahead of the aircraft.
MSFS on its own is of no use whatsoever. You'll need to purchase an add-on for whichever type you are looking to gain knowledge of. For the A320 I used Phoenix Simulations A320 and for the 737 I used PMDG's 737NG (You'll need 600/700 & 800/900 versions to enable the displays to be configured in the CTC/easyjet PFD/ND format, rather than the Boeing standard 6 dial efis).
Other add ons that I can recommend are Wilco Publishing PIC 737-300/400/500, Level D simulations 767 and PMDG 747-400.
All of these add-ons have FMC's which are between 75% and 90% functional and numerous other systems that are 100% accurate. PMDG are also due to be bringing out an A320 soon which promises to be much better than the Phoenix A320.
Hope this helps.
SW
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flight simulator is good for helping to learn, and to keep up to skills....yet i have heard others mention that it is near useless.
I know alot of PPL instrutors are able to tell who has been playing MSFS when they get into a cockpit as the students head is down inside looking at the instruments rather than outside - I was guilty of it to a certain extent myself - although I thought they gave you those dials for a reason !!.
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I would 2nd that Leezy. I have the add on's for MSFS named above and have been guilty of looking down a lot when in the cockpit. Hats off to PMDG though as they helped me out in the ATPL's answering some of those FMC and TCAS type questions for sure.
Also the 747 stand alone flight sim by Aerowinx is great fun as well. Budget on a couple of days hard study though to try and get it flying from a "cold and dark" cockpit!
Also the 747 stand alone flight sim by Aerowinx is great fun as well. Budget on a couple of days hard study though to try and get it flying from a "cold and dark" cockpit!
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747-400 http://www.precisionmanuals.com
747-400F http://www.precisionmanuals.com
767-300ER http://www.leveldsim.com
ATR 72? http://www.flight1.com
FS2CREW LDS 767 http://www.fs2crew.com
Radar Contact 4 www.?????
Active Sky 6 http://www.hifisim.com
the above addons for MSFS make the simulation ultra realistic, especially with FS2CREW which follow First Choice's operating procedures(for use with LDS 767 & ATR 72))...many RW pilots have contributed heavily to these addons...
Boeing even had PMDG to show the their rendition of the 747....
im about to purchase both the CH pedals/yoke plus the trackIR4 tracker to make the sim even more realistic.
there are many pilots who turn there noses at this sim, this is probably down to them seeing no addons and seeing earlier version which does do FS9 ans FSX any justice!
just my 2 cent!
747-400F http://www.precisionmanuals.com
767-300ER http://www.leveldsim.com
ATR 72? http://www.flight1.com
FS2CREW LDS 767 http://www.fs2crew.com
Radar Contact 4 www.?????
Active Sky 6 http://www.hifisim.com
the above addons for MSFS make the simulation ultra realistic, especially with FS2CREW which follow First Choice's operating procedures(for use with LDS 767 & ATR 72))...many RW pilots have contributed heavily to these addons...
Boeing even had PMDG to show the their rendition of the 747....
im about to purchase both the CH pedals/yoke plus the trackIR4 tracker to make the sim even more realistic.
there are many pilots who turn there noses at this sim, this is probably down to them seeing no addons and seeing earlier version which does do FS9 ans FSX any justice!
just my 2 cent!
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I don't want this thread to turn into an MSFS enthusiasts' contest to see who has the most, and most expensive, add-ons. The Computer and Internet forum is the place for that, where it has been discussed many - maybe hundreds of - times.
Keep this topic to the original point - what use is MSFS to a budding pilot?
Scroggs
Keep this topic to the original point - what use is MSFS to a budding pilot?
Scroggs
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I know I'm probabaly in a majority of one on this thread, but I think MSFS is pretty appalling as a serious training aid, I fail to see what it is I can get out of it. There are much better, albeit, much more expensive packages out there. However, when you add up what you would probably need in terms of hardware and extra addons for FS, I doubt there is much in the cost between the serious packages and MSFS.
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I have used MSFS as a supplement and not a primary flight training tool and thanks to it I've always passed every test first time with huge compliments too. Why are we getting into this snobbery about MSFS, what's really at issue here? I believe that inviuting MSFS into the domain of flight training simultaneously gives access to the great unwashed who the FTO don't want thinking that "anyone can do it", flying that is. This would also dispel the myth that serious flight training has to always cost an arm and leg, why should it?
When learning anything there's great benefit to be had from all manner of sources and flying is no exception. MSFS is relatively cheap and has numerous add-on packs that would 'assist' a new PPL student get a feel for their X-country which no doubt appears frightening or the ATPL chap transitioning onto the 767 wanting to also get a feel for the forthcoming type rating.
We should be debating not whether MSFS has a place or not within flight training but assessing where and to what extent it can be employed/combined with traditional training methods. Remember abotu 10 years ago Microsoft had Flight Safety involved with the design who subsequently used it as part of of their training syllabus (minimal but still some degree of usage). This gesture from a company that knows a thing or two about professional simulator training and type ratings.
Any-hooo, keep smiling folks and have a nice day.
When learning anything there's great benefit to be had from all manner of sources and flying is no exception. MSFS is relatively cheap and has numerous add-on packs that would 'assist' a new PPL student get a feel for their X-country which no doubt appears frightening or the ATPL chap transitioning onto the 767 wanting to also get a feel for the forthcoming type rating.
We should be debating not whether MSFS has a place or not within flight training but assessing where and to what extent it can be employed/combined with traditional training methods. Remember abotu 10 years ago Microsoft had Flight Safety involved with the design who subsequently used it as part of of their training syllabus (minimal but still some degree of usage). This gesture from a company that knows a thing or two about professional simulator training and type ratings.
Any-hooo, keep smiling folks and have a nice day.
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A friend of mine said to me that MSFS helped him with talking to ATC. The built in ATC isnt very good but if you take the game online (www.vatsim.net) you will find it gets a little more realistic now your talking to real people in the ATC tower and with "real time/live update" weather. For hand flying the aircraft i doubt it would be of much help, however, like BMI701EGCC posted, if you bought some of those add-ons it would build on the realism a little again, the Level-D 767 and other aircraft add-ons has more advanced systems than the standard that come with MSFS so it might help you know your way around the cockpit and how some of the things work before you did a type rate.
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While there is a degree of snobbery about this program, you'd be surprised at the number of professional pilots that have it on their home computers! I use it to remind myself of instrument procedures at airfields I'm a bit rusty on, and to have a look at the procedures at some of our diversion airfields.
For this sort of thing, MSFS is OK. No better than that - the ATC simulation is very poor and unrealistic, and most of the default aircraft do not behave particularly well. The palava required to change a radio frequency or select a VOR is a big distraction, and dreadfully unrealistic - and pausing the program while you find out where you are, relate it to the Jeppesen, reselect the navaids etc. is hardly a route to self-improvement (though the cat might learn a few new words!).
If you have one of the VFR scenery add-ons for your particular part of the world, you may find that you can reasonably simulate a cross-country route, though again the ATC and radio navigation aspects will be below par.
Some of the better commercial aircraft add-ons have extremely good handling characteristics, and very comprehensive FMC/FMGC representations, with prototypical databases and performance. However, even with two (or more) screens and a ninja computer, the fidelity to the real thing is limited by the fact that a) you're on your own; b) you've got no real switchery to play with and; c) the ATC and traffic environment is very artificial.
MSFS'X' looks likely to be a big visual improvement on FS2004, but I reserve judgement on the other aspects of it. It's likely to remain little more than a very complex, and very pretty, toy, unless you have the resources to spend a great deal of money on supplementary physical add-ons, and have a mate to operate in the other seat and can log in to one of the available virtual ATC environments. These last I have yet to experience, but I very much doubt they adequately recreate the manic nature of operating at LHR, JFK or LAX!
Scroggs
For this sort of thing, MSFS is OK. No better than that - the ATC simulation is very poor and unrealistic, and most of the default aircraft do not behave particularly well. The palava required to change a radio frequency or select a VOR is a big distraction, and dreadfully unrealistic - and pausing the program while you find out where you are, relate it to the Jeppesen, reselect the navaids etc. is hardly a route to self-improvement (though the cat might learn a few new words!).
If you have one of the VFR scenery add-ons for your particular part of the world, you may find that you can reasonably simulate a cross-country route, though again the ATC and radio navigation aspects will be below par.
Some of the better commercial aircraft add-ons have extremely good handling characteristics, and very comprehensive FMC/FMGC representations, with prototypical databases and performance. However, even with two (or more) screens and a ninja computer, the fidelity to the real thing is limited by the fact that a) you're on your own; b) you've got no real switchery to play with and; c) the ATC and traffic environment is very artificial.
MSFS'X' looks likely to be a big visual improvement on FS2004, but I reserve judgement on the other aspects of it. It's likely to remain little more than a very complex, and very pretty, toy, unless you have the resources to spend a great deal of money on supplementary physical add-ons, and have a mate to operate in the other seat and can log in to one of the available virtual ATC environments. These last I have yet to experience, but I very much doubt they adequately recreate the manic nature of operating at LHR, JFK or LAX!
Scroggs
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MSFS is relatively cheap
Even the scenery provides enough information to follow a CAA chart if you are so inclided, I'm not specifically recommending it, but it is an observation of mine.
I've never been much of a one for MS Flightsim or any similar program - but then I've never gone more than 3 weeks between actual flights from the age of 17 to 31 (eek).
I found that as a flying instructor I had to deprogram several problems caused from excessive use or enthusiasm for MS Flightsim. Prior to a PPL course its use does turn people into IFR pilots who fly by never taking their eyes off the instruments. There are many issues.
The most useful program I ever came across was a free utility that taught me morse code in 3 days flat. The second most useful was RANT. It got me through my IMC and IR and I inflicted it upon all my instrument students and Integrated students. A couple of evenings playing about with RANT can save hours and hours in the air and for this reason I think it is exceptionally good value. Doubtless it has competitors now but way back last century it was fairly unique.
If you are looking for something useful to learn one wet weekend then try learning how to decode TAFs and METARs and Morse.
Cheers
WWW
I found that as a flying instructor I had to deprogram several problems caused from excessive use or enthusiasm for MS Flightsim. Prior to a PPL course its use does turn people into IFR pilots who fly by never taking their eyes off the instruments. There are many issues.
The most useful program I ever came across was a free utility that taught me morse code in 3 days flat. The second most useful was RANT. It got me through my IMC and IR and I inflicted it upon all my instrument students and Integrated students. A couple of evenings playing about with RANT can save hours and hours in the air and for this reason I think it is exceptionally good value. Doubtless it has competitors now but way back last century it was fairly unique.
If you are looking for something useful to learn one wet weekend then try learning how to decode TAFs and METARs and Morse.
Cheers
WWW