Instrument Rating - Simulator vs. Aircraft Time
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Instrument Rating - Simulator vs. Aircraft Time
Hoping that someone can shed some light on this because I'm currently tearing my hair out!
I recently completed my CPL/MEP in the UK and then moved to Malta due to my job, which is of course also an EASA country. I'm intending to do my IR with one of the Maltese based flying schools out here.
Unfortunately I'm getting mixed information and the UK CAA hasn't been able to clarify either. I really need to establish the minimum training requirements in order to issue an (ME)IR on a UK CPL.
What I know for sure is that I get a 10 hour credit for already having a CPL (A) and so the total training required is 45 hours. However, one school out here has quoted me 30 hours in the simulator followed by 15 hours in an ME aircraft, whereas another school has quoted me 35 hours in the simulator followed by 10 hours in an ME aircraft.
Both equal the same number of hours in total, but the school offering me 30 sim/15 aircraft has quoted the following which they say is from Part FCL Appendix 6:
"holders of a valid CPL(A) issued in accordance with ICAO, or of a Course Completion Certificate for the Basic Instrument Flight Module, may have the total amount of training required credited with 10 hours. The remaining instrument flight instruction shall include at least 15 hours in multi-engine aeroplanes."
If this is correct, it would then suggest that the school offering 35 sim/10 aircraft is wrong to do so. However, they have insisted that this is correct (this particular school are administered by the Belgian CAA, I'm not sure if this makes any difference).
The UK CAA has of course directed me to CAP 804 Section 4 Part G (which I'd already searched at length) but it doesn't seem to spell out the IR training requirements. Of course I want to avoid spending 12K EUR, sitting a flight test and then having my paperwork rejected by the UK CAA!
Any pointers would be much appreciated..
I recently completed my CPL/MEP in the UK and then moved to Malta due to my job, which is of course also an EASA country. I'm intending to do my IR with one of the Maltese based flying schools out here.
Unfortunately I'm getting mixed information and the UK CAA hasn't been able to clarify either. I really need to establish the minimum training requirements in order to issue an (ME)IR on a UK CPL.
What I know for sure is that I get a 10 hour credit for already having a CPL (A) and so the total training required is 45 hours. However, one school out here has quoted me 30 hours in the simulator followed by 15 hours in an ME aircraft, whereas another school has quoted me 35 hours in the simulator followed by 10 hours in an ME aircraft.
Both equal the same number of hours in total, but the school offering me 30 sim/15 aircraft has quoted the following which they say is from Part FCL Appendix 6:
"holders of a valid CPL(A) issued in accordance with ICAO, or of a Course Completion Certificate for the Basic Instrument Flight Module, may have the total amount of training required credited with 10 hours. The remaining instrument flight instruction shall include at least 15 hours in multi-engine aeroplanes."
If this is correct, it would then suggest that the school offering 35 sim/10 aircraft is wrong to do so. However, they have insisted that this is correct (this particular school are administered by the Belgian CAA, I'm not sure if this makes any difference).
The UK CAA has of course directed me to CAP 804 Section 4 Part G (which I'd already searched at length) but it doesn't seem to spell out the IR training requirements. Of course I want to avoid spending 12K EUR, sitting a flight test and then having my paperwork rejected by the UK CAA!
Any pointers would be much appreciated..
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You have completed the BIFM (Basic Instrument Flight Module) in the CPL, so it is indeed 45 hours for a multi-engine IR.
A minimum of 15 hours must be in the aircraft. It cannot be 10.
All EASA states should require 15, so I would suggest the Belgian based school is wrong.
Once you have your UK CPL, you can add a Rating to it in any other EASA state. A popular one was the Spanish IR on the UK CPL.
A minimum of 15 hours must be in the aircraft. It cannot be 10.
All EASA states should require 15, so I would suggest the Belgian based school is wrong.
Once you have your UK CPL, you can add a Rating to it in any other EASA state. A popular one was the Spanish IR on the UK CPL.
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Appendix 6 to Part-FCL Modular Training Courses for the IR
A IR(A) — Modular flying training course
GENERAL
1 The aim of the IR(A) modular flying training course is to train pilots to the level of
proficiency necessary to operate aeroplanes under IFR and in IMC. The course
consists of two modules, which may be taken separately or combined:
(a) Basic Instrument Flight Module
This comprises 10 hours of instrument time under instruction, of which up to 5
hours can be instrument ground time in a BITD, FNPT I or II, or an FFS. Upon
completion of the Basic Instrument Flight Module, the candidate shall be issued
a Course Completion Certificate.
(b) Procedural Instrument Flight Module
This comprises the remainder of the training syllabus for the IR(A), 40 hours
single-engine or 45 hours multi-engine instrument time under instruction, and the
theoretical knowledge course for the IR(A).
2 An applicant for a modular IR(A) course shall be the holder of a PPL(A) or a CPL(A),
including the privileges to fly at night. An applicant for the Procedural Instrument
Flight Module, who does not hold a CPL(A), shall be holder of a Course Completion
Certificate for the Basic Instrument Flight Module.
The ATO shall ensure that the applicant for a multi-engine IR(A) course who has not
held a multi-engine aeroplane class or type rating has received the multi-engine
training specified in Subpart H prior to commencing the flight training for the IR(A)
course.
3 An applicant wishing to undertake the Procedural Instrument Flight Module of a
modular IR(A) course shall be required to complete all the instructional stages in one
continuous approved course of training. Prior to commencing the Procedural
Instrument Flight Module, the ATO shall ensure the competence of the applicant in
basic instrument flying skills. Refresher training shall be given as required.
4 The course of theoretical instruction shall be completed within 18 months. The
Procedural Instrument Flight Module and the skill test shall be completed within the
period of validity of the pass in theoretical examinations.
5 The course shall comprise:
(a) theoretical knowledge instruction to the IR knowledge level;
(b) instrument flight instruction.
THEORETICAL KNOWLEDGE
6 An approved modular IR(A) course shall comprise at least 150 hours of theoretical
knowledge instruction.
FLYING TRAINING
7 A single-engine IR(A) course shall comprise at least 50 hours instrument time under
instruction of which up to 20 hours may be instrument ground time in an FNPT I, or
up to 35 hours in an FFS or FNPT II. A maximum of 10 hours of FNPT II or an FFS
instrument ground time may be conducted in an FNPT I.
8 A multi-engine IR(A) course shall comprise at least 55 hours instrument time under
instruction, of which up to 25 hours may be instrument ground time in an FNPT I, or
up to 40 hours in an FFS or FNPT II. A maximum of 10 hours of FNPT II or an FFS
instrument ground time may be conducted in an FNPT I. The remaining instrument
flight instruction shall include at least 15 hours in multi-engine aeroplanes.
9 The holder of a single-engine IR(A) who also holds a multi-engine class or type rating
wishing to obtain a multi-engine IR(A) for the first time shall complete a course at an
ATO comprising at least 5 hours instruction in instrument flying in multi-engine
aeroplanes, of which 3 hours may be in an FFS or FNPT II.
10.1 The holder of a CPL(A) or of a Course Completion Certificate for the Basic Instrument
Flight Module may have the total amount of training required in paragraphs 7 or 8
above reduced by 10 hours.
--------------------------------------------
What does this all mean?
If you have done your CPL/MEP, I understand that you already have to your credit 5 hours of the BIFM done in a multi-engine aeroplane. The total flying time in MEP for the ME/IR is 15 hours. So all you need is 10 hours flying in a MEP to do to complete your full IR.
It would have been different if you had done your BIFM in a single-engine. Then you would have needed 15 hours in a MEP.
Therefore, it all depends. I would say that the Belgian school is correct if you have done your BIFM in a multi-engine, and incorrect if you had done your BIFM in a single-engine.
Anybody with a second opinion is welcome.
A IR(A) — Modular flying training course
GENERAL
1 The aim of the IR(A) modular flying training course is to train pilots to the level of
proficiency necessary to operate aeroplanes under IFR and in IMC. The course
consists of two modules, which may be taken separately or combined:
(a) Basic Instrument Flight Module
This comprises 10 hours of instrument time under instruction, of which up to 5
hours can be instrument ground time in a BITD, FNPT I or II, or an FFS. Upon
completion of the Basic Instrument Flight Module, the candidate shall be issued
a Course Completion Certificate.
(b) Procedural Instrument Flight Module
This comprises the remainder of the training syllabus for the IR(A), 40 hours
single-engine or 45 hours multi-engine instrument time under instruction, and the
theoretical knowledge course for the IR(A).
2 An applicant for a modular IR(A) course shall be the holder of a PPL(A) or a CPL(A),
including the privileges to fly at night. An applicant for the Procedural Instrument
Flight Module, who does not hold a CPL(A), shall be holder of a Course Completion
Certificate for the Basic Instrument Flight Module.
The ATO shall ensure that the applicant for a multi-engine IR(A) course who has not
held a multi-engine aeroplane class or type rating has received the multi-engine
training specified in Subpart H prior to commencing the flight training for the IR(A)
course.
3 An applicant wishing to undertake the Procedural Instrument Flight Module of a
modular IR(A) course shall be required to complete all the instructional stages in one
continuous approved course of training. Prior to commencing the Procedural
Instrument Flight Module, the ATO shall ensure the competence of the applicant in
basic instrument flying skills. Refresher training shall be given as required.
4 The course of theoretical instruction shall be completed within 18 months. The
Procedural Instrument Flight Module and the skill test shall be completed within the
period of validity of the pass in theoretical examinations.
5 The course shall comprise:
(a) theoretical knowledge instruction to the IR knowledge level;
(b) instrument flight instruction.
THEORETICAL KNOWLEDGE
6 An approved modular IR(A) course shall comprise at least 150 hours of theoretical
knowledge instruction.
FLYING TRAINING
7 A single-engine IR(A) course shall comprise at least 50 hours instrument time under
instruction of which up to 20 hours may be instrument ground time in an FNPT I, or
up to 35 hours in an FFS or FNPT II. A maximum of 10 hours of FNPT II or an FFS
instrument ground time may be conducted in an FNPT I.
8 A multi-engine IR(A) course shall comprise at least 55 hours instrument time under
instruction, of which up to 25 hours may be instrument ground time in an FNPT I, or
up to 40 hours in an FFS or FNPT II. A maximum of 10 hours of FNPT II or an FFS
instrument ground time may be conducted in an FNPT I. The remaining instrument
flight instruction shall include at least 15 hours in multi-engine aeroplanes.
9 The holder of a single-engine IR(A) who also holds a multi-engine class or type rating
wishing to obtain a multi-engine IR(A) for the first time shall complete a course at an
ATO comprising at least 5 hours instruction in instrument flying in multi-engine
aeroplanes, of which 3 hours may be in an FFS or FNPT II.
10.1 The holder of a CPL(A) or of a Course Completion Certificate for the Basic Instrument
Flight Module may have the total amount of training required in paragraphs 7 or 8
above reduced by 10 hours.
--------------------------------------------
What does this all mean?
If you have done your CPL/MEP, I understand that you already have to your credit 5 hours of the BIFM done in a multi-engine aeroplane. The total flying time in MEP for the ME/IR is 15 hours. So all you need is 10 hours flying in a MEP to do to complete your full IR.
It would have been different if you had done your BIFM in a single-engine. Then you would have needed 15 hours in a MEP.
Therefore, it all depends. I would say that the Belgian school is correct if you have done your BIFM in a multi-engine, and incorrect if you had done your BIFM in a single-engine.
Anybody with a second opinion is welcome.
Last edited by PigeonVoyageur; 1st Mar 2014 at 12:22.
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@PigeonVoyageur - sounds fair enough, but my CPL and therefore instrument hours were conducted in a single engine? Even though I also completed my MEP rating at the same time..
No wonder everyone is confused!
No wonder everyone is confused!
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@dn88: better contact the Belgian school again pointing out that your BIFM was in single engine and that you did your ME rating after that, and get another quote for the course to compare like with like.
Happy flying!
Happy flying!
