Correct time logging EASA
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 21
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From: Bournemouth, Dorset
Correct time logging EASA
Hello all.
I have searched the forum and googled but can't find an answer to my question, does anyone have the answer or know where I can look for the definitive answer?
What is the correct and acceptable method of logging pilot time? by correct and acceptable, I mean to the UK authorities for the purpose of working through flight training and licence issuing etc.
Currently, under the Departure and Arrival columns in my logbook I am entering the take off time and the landing time, then in the Total Time Of Flight column I am entering the time of flight plus 0.2 for taxi.
E.g
Departure: 15:30 / Arrival: 16:00 / Total Time Of Flight: 0.7
Thanks in advance
I have searched the forum and googled but can't find an answer to my question, does anyone have the answer or know where I can look for the definitive answer?
What is the correct and acceptable method of logging pilot time? by correct and acceptable, I mean to the UK authorities for the purpose of working through flight training and licence issuing etc.
Currently, under the Departure and Arrival columns in my logbook I am entering the take off time and the landing time, then in the Total Time Of Flight column I am entering the time of flight plus 0.2 for taxi.
E.g
Departure: 15:30 / Arrival: 16:00 / Total Time Of Flight: 0.7
Thanks in advance
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 205
Likes: 3
From: Meteorology Avenue
'Flight time' (for airplanes) means the total time from the moment an aircraft first moves for the purpose of taking off until the moment it finally comes to rest at the end of the flight.
Hence, you can log the Departure time from 'brakes off' and Arrival time as 'final brakes on'.
Hence, you can log the Departure time from 'brakes off' and Arrival time as 'final brakes on'.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 356
Likes: 2
From: France
It's common practice in the UK to log as Flight time the flight time between TO and LDG, plus 10mn ou 12 mn for taxi.
This does NOT seem legal to me:
Part FCL defines as ‘Flight time’:
for aeroplanes, touring motor gliders and powered-lift, it means the total time from the moment an aircraft first moves for the purpose of taking off until the moment it finally comes to rest at the end of the flight;
This does NOT seem legal to me:
Part FCL defines as ‘Flight time’:
for aeroplanes, touring motor gliders and powered-lift, it means the total time from the moment an aircraft first moves for the purpose of taking off until the moment it finally comes to rest at the end of the flight;
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Bournemouth, Dorset
172510, yes same thoughts here which prompted my original question. I have asked a couple of flying instructors about this and both have said it is fine to log TO and LDG plus 0.2 for taxi, my concerns are; would the 0.2 be ok when progressing through modular flight training if the log book was inspected by anyone..
Last edited by sm85; 30th November 2013 at 19:59.
Fly Conventional Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,600
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From: Winchester
Some flight schools do have agreements with the CAA to log take off to landing + a fixed amount due to occasional excessive waits at holding points at certain UK airports...
In the absence of that though it is just block time as recorded as others have stated.
In the absence of that though it is just block time as recorded as others have stated.
Joined: May 2001
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it doesn't matter what the flight school thinks, you log brakes off for the intention of flight to brakes on. As per ANO and soon to be the new EASA rules.
Now it may well be that the CAA says that some of the time doesn't count towards training requirements. But the flight time logged is still the same.
Now it may well be that the CAA says that some of the time doesn't count towards training requirements. But the flight time logged is still the same.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
its very very easy.
You make a note of the time you move with the intention of flying.
Then you make a note of the time when you park up.
Then log the difference between the two.
You make a note of the time you move with the intention of flying.
Then you make a note of the time when you park up.
Then log the difference between the two.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,804
Likes: 1
Shy they never listen though.
Then its tears when they get their applications knocked back when upgrading to ATPL because of some rubbish a PPL instructor has told them. Then they find out its going to be another 12 months before its LPC time and they can do the LST again. Some of the forgein lads even pay for a special sim session to do the check in the LHS then get knocked back due to logging club check rides as PICUS. Then have to pay for another sim check. Just because they believed there PPL FI.
Then its tears when they get their applications knocked back when upgrading to ATPL because of some rubbish a PPL instructor has told them. Then they find out its going to be another 12 months before its LPC time and they can do the LST again. Some of the forgein lads even pay for a special sim session to do the check in the LHS then get knocked back due to logging club check rides as PICUS. Then have to pay for another sim check. Just because they believed there PPL FI.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
it doesn't matter what the flight school thinks, you log brakes off for the intention of flight to brakes on. As per ANO and soon to be the new EASA rules.
Now it may well be that the CAA says that some of the time doesn't count towards training requirements. But the flight time logged is still the same.
Now it may well be that the CAA says that some of the time doesn't count towards training requirements. But the flight time logged is still the same.
My understanding is that that is entirely to do with billing and should be treated as such. What goes in a pilot's logbook remains brakes-off to brakes-on, and should absolutely do so.
That said, the nature of the airfield is that rounded to the nearest 5 minutes, the two are almost always the same anyhow.
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 89
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From: BHX
Exactly, in most cases it's to do with FTO/Club policies and always related to billing.
Some people then get used to calculate flight time and taxi time separately, which is just unnecessary.
Pilot time always starts when aircraft first moves under its own power.
I have always done it that way, for me its always brakes off to brakes on.
This will then accurately present your times for your log book.
Some people then get used to calculate flight time and taxi time separately, which is just unnecessary.
Pilot time always starts when aircraft first moves under its own power.
I have always done it that way, for me its always brakes off to brakes on.
This will then accurately present your times for your log book.
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 682
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From: UK
EASA gives the definition of Flight Time - but does not indicate to what
degree of accuracy this must be recorded.
To the nearest minute, to the nearest five minutes and to the nearest
six minutes (1/10th of an hour) are, probably the most common.
I cannot, therefore, see any problem recording Flight Time from either
actual "Brakes Off to Brakes On" or as a notional "Brakes Off to Brakes On"
based on 5 (or 6) minutes added before the Take Off and after the
Landing times.
Personally I like "Take Off to Landing + 10" as, for aircraft charged by
Flight Time, it removes the financial incentive to rush the checks prior
to departure.
For the OP:
I would assume this will be picked up, and queried, by the CAA as
Flight Time must equal Arrival Time minus Departure Time.
degree of accuracy this must be recorded.
To the nearest minute, to the nearest five minutes and to the nearest
six minutes (1/10th of an hour) are, probably the most common.
I cannot, therefore, see any problem recording Flight Time from either
actual "Brakes Off to Brakes On" or as a notional "Brakes Off to Brakes On"
based on 5 (or 6) minutes added before the Take Off and after the
Landing times.
Personally I like "Take Off to Landing + 10" as, for aircraft charged by
Flight Time, it removes the financial incentive to rush the checks prior
to departure.
For the OP:
E.g
Departure: 15:30 / Arrival: 16:00 / Total Time Of Flight: 0.7
Departure: 15:30 / Arrival: 16:00 / Total Time Of Flight: 0.7
Flight Time must equal Arrival Time minus Departure Time.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
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From: UK
(1) Log time from brakes-off to brakes-on.
(2) Record and pay whatever is the deal with the aircraft owner.
(3) Log "sole reference to instruments", the time which was by sole reference to instruments. And IFR similarly.
I've never found keeping track of those several numbers particularly problematic. I'd venture that if anybody else can't, they probably are a bit intellectually challenged and shouldn't be allowed out of the circuit as they may not have the capacity to work out time, speed and distance either.
(2) Record and pay whatever is the deal with the aircraft owner.
(3) Log "sole reference to instruments", the time which was by sole reference to instruments. And IFR similarly.
I've never found keeping track of those several numbers particularly problematic. I'd venture that if anybody else can't, they probably are a bit intellectually challenged and shouldn't be allowed out of the circuit as they may not have the capacity to work out time, speed and distance either.
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 13
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From: belgium
We are logging time by means off the hobbs timer in my FTO.
The hobbs timer start counting from engine start till engine stop ( detects oil pressure), engine start is maybe 1 or 2 min before we start taxi, so ist kind like block hours.
The hobbs timers works in ticks of 6 min, sometimes 10 sec after engine start it does the first tick and i have 6 min "flown" on the other hand, some times you can be 5 min and 50 sec in the "tick" at engine stop ant dont have the full 6 min's , so the 5min 50 sec will not be logged in the book.
In avarage this will cancel each other more or less. Sometimes i have 6 min " extra" sometimes not
The hobbs timer start counting from engine start till engine stop ( detects oil pressure), engine start is maybe 1 or 2 min before we start taxi, so ist kind like block hours.
The hobbs timers works in ticks of 6 min, sometimes 10 sec after engine start it does the first tick and i have 6 min "flown" on the other hand, some times you can be 5 min and 50 sec in the "tick" at engine stop ant dont have the full 6 min's , so the 5min 50 sec will not be logged in the book.
In avarage this will cancel each other more or less. Sometimes i have 6 min " extra" sometimes not