Views on the job market and low-hour job possibilities.
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WWW,
I feel for your mate. Hang in there. One swallow and all that.
Look at the Ryanair thread on here, and you'll see that they are indeed hiring from OAT.
I also know of individuals not able to get jobs, but then again I also hear of those that do.
No doubt it's not as easy as it used to be, but it aint imposible either.
PS
I feel for your mate. Hang in there. One swallow and all that.
Look at the Ryanair thread on here, and you'll see that they are indeed hiring from OAT.
I also know of individuals not able to get jobs, but then again I also hear of those that do.
No doubt it's not as easy as it used to be, but it aint imposible either.
PS
Join Date: Aug 1999
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As I said, the market is tight for instructors but it will most likely be the 800-1000 hr pilot who'll get the interview. Once you've got the sim ride, then polish your skills in the appropriate sim. As to the last 500hrs being of no use to you in your job search, I'd say that if I'd been an approved course commercial instructor it'd count for quite a lot.
Wannabes are caught between a rock and a hard place but an FNPT2 doesn't really cut it.
Another angle would be to get a jet orientation or MCC course under your belt.
Regards
Wannabes are caught between a rock and a hard place but an FNPT2 doesn't really cut it.
Another angle would be to get a jet orientation or MCC course under your belt.
Regards
The market is not just tight. Its closed. All the OATS instructors are working under notice. I know instructors with 2000hrs instructional who cannot find a permanent instructing job for the summer. If you have only 250hrs and a new FI rating you stand little realistic chance of recouping the £4,500 you spent on the rating. Plus two months on the course when you could have been at work you are £5,000 down before you start.
I used to pound the drum for the FI route and it served me very very well. Its just things are different now and you have to adjust to the times.
Time in the air is valuable but 1000 SEP hours against two years salary plus £5,000 is questionable.
The sim ride is more important. Assuming you are not a prat you will pass an interview. They are either going to get a good vibe about you or they aren't.
Your initial application will be in the same pile with 1000hrs SEP or 200hrs SEP. You basically have 3 piles. Frzn ATPLs. Commercially experienced on a different type. Type rated.
The sim ride is where most Frzn ATPL's are going to fall over. 1,000hrs VFR tuition is not going to help much. ALL you need is a good scan and the ONLY way that comes/stays is by regular IR flying. An FNPT2 is in my opinion the best affordable way of keeping the scan that will get you through the sim ride.
I am assuming MCC is already completed.
OK, perhaps the last 500hrs (which were the BAE ones) did help me - I concede.
Cheers,
WWW
I used to pound the drum for the FI route and it served me very very well. Its just things are different now and you have to adjust to the times.
Time in the air is valuable but 1000 SEP hours against two years salary plus £5,000 is questionable.
The sim ride is more important. Assuming you are not a prat you will pass an interview. They are either going to get a good vibe about you or they aren't.
Your initial application will be in the same pile with 1000hrs SEP or 200hrs SEP. You basically have 3 piles. Frzn ATPLs. Commercially experienced on a different type. Type rated.
The sim ride is where most Frzn ATPL's are going to fall over. 1,000hrs VFR tuition is not going to help much. ALL you need is a good scan and the ONLY way that comes/stays is by regular IR flying. An FNPT2 is in my opinion the best affordable way of keeping the scan that will get you through the sim ride.
I am assuming MCC is already completed.
OK, perhaps the last 500hrs (which were the BAE ones) did help me - I concede.
Cheers,
WWW
Join Date: Apr 2002
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where theres a will....
Dont count out the inexperienced lowly hour pilot, not OATS trained pilot just yet! A very close friend of mine
has just landed a F/O position on a shiny biz jet. His total hours? <300.
Modular trained at schools youve never heard of, self financed over a millenium, no MCC, had a 757 course canned after Sept. 11, worked last 6 months in a ground position, came within an inch of quitting it all and today finally came up trumps
Sheer example of taking the hard knocks and healing them into dedication. Well done mate. An inspiration to Wannabes.
Still Flappin'
has just landed a F/O position on a shiny biz jet. His total hours? <300. Modular trained at schools youve never heard of, self financed over a millenium, no MCC, had a 757 course canned after Sept. 11, worked last 6 months in a ground position, came within an inch of quitting it all and today finally came up trumps
Sheer example of taking the hard knocks and healing them into dedication. Well done mate. An inspiration to Wannabes.
Still Flappin'
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Join Date: Dec 1999
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Slotted Flap,
Sounds like me... modular, <300hrs, non OATS, do have MCC though. After some time I have not even had an interview.
It's good to hear of successes like your friends, but it would be all the more inspirational if you said how it was done - even obliquely if you prefer. Any clues?
Sorry if I'm being nosey but you understand.
Sounds like me... modular, <300hrs, non OATS, do have MCC though. After some time I have not even had an interview.
It's good to hear of successes like your friends, but it would be all the more inspirational if you said how it was done - even obliquely if you prefer. Any clues?
Sorry if I'm being nosey but you understand.
Slotted Flap - great news. There is always someone who lands on his feet. I can name entire courses from Jerez who are without work at this time. Biz jets are perhaps the very hardest area of aviation to enter. It is breathtaking that a <300hrs guy has done so at this time. Many pilots have been let go by the likes of NetJets who would have Bizjet experience and type ratings.
Your friend is either very lucky, or perhaps connected in some way... not the Chief Pilots son is he?
The jobs will come back. Was talking only this morning to an easyJet FO whose roster is rammed full due their shortage of RHS pilots... Mutterings of Britannia booking Autumn courses... etc.
WWW
Your friend is either very lucky, or perhaps connected in some way... not the Chief Pilots son is he?
The jobs will come back. Was talking only this morning to an easyJet FO whose roster is rammed full due their shortage of RHS pilots... Mutterings of Britannia booking Autumn courses... etc.
WWW
I say there boy
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I certainly hope so.
WWW for what it's worth I totally agree with your recommendation... as it is almost exactly the way that I have decided to play things.
I got the IR last September and an MCC in October, unsurprisingly I've not had a sniff of a job since. Got half way thorugh an instructors rating then binned it due to lack of cash and job opportunities.
Now back in my old job, simming every two weeks in a cheap but good FNPT, flying SE whenever I can afford it (luckily I have a share in an aircraft).
It's just a case of keeping the CV going in to the airlines, enough to keep my name in the pile, but not so often as to annoy the HR department.
IR renewal comes up later in the year, by summer 2003 I hope to be either finishing my instructors rating or having a stab at the ATP scheme, or possibly paying for a JOC or AQC.
As you have said it looks like the winners in the current market will be those who can afford to play the waiting game with some degree of instrument currency.
To all those in my position - keep the faith - it will happen.
foggy.
WWW for what it's worth I totally agree with your recommendation... as it is almost exactly the way that I have decided to play things.
I got the IR last September and an MCC in October, unsurprisingly I've not had a sniff of a job since. Got half way thorugh an instructors rating then binned it due to lack of cash and job opportunities.
Now back in my old job, simming every two weeks in a cheap but good FNPT, flying SE whenever I can afford it (luckily I have a share in an aircraft).
It's just a case of keeping the CV going in to the airlines, enough to keep my name in the pile, but not so often as to annoy the HR department.
IR renewal comes up later in the year, by summer 2003 I hope to be either finishing my instructors rating or having a stab at the ATP scheme, or possibly paying for a JOC or AQC.
As you have said it looks like the winners in the current market will be those who can afford to play the waiting game with some degree of instrument currency.
To all those in my position - keep the faith - it will happen.
foggy.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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WWW: Yes the man is a cat and always lands on his feet, but he is a long way from being 'connected'.
Miles High: I think the big tip lies in last 6 months of his ground job. Front desk for a small company. Lackey boy and chief coffee maker. Networking crew from all walks of life. All for a pay packet of peanuts. Are you committed enough to do this?
The unemployed call it the 'exception to the rule', the old school call it 'character building and doing your time', the successfull Wanabe calls it 'making your own luck'.
Now if only I could work out to call it.
Still Flappin'
Miles High: I think the big tip lies in last 6 months of his ground job. Front desk for a small company. Lackey boy and chief coffee maker. Networking crew from all walks of life. All for a pay packet of peanuts. Are you committed enough to do this?
The unemployed call it the 'exception to the rule', the old school call it 'character building and doing your time', the successfull Wanabe calls it 'making your own luck'.
Now if only I could work out to call it.
Still Flappin'
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Thanks SF, it is good to know it happens, albeit very occasionally.
I've got the commitment alright, but its the 'peanuts' thats the problem. As if this aviation job lark wasn't hard enough, I've got the mortgage, wife and kids to support - which means keeping my current job. No instructing. No airline ground work. (I might have considered it, but I think the mortgage extended by 40K, the time so far put in etc, is about all she can take!)
I won't be giving up though! Back to the drawng board...
I've got the commitment alright, but its the 'peanuts' thats the problem. As if this aviation job lark wasn't hard enough, I've got the mortgage, wife and kids to support - which means keeping my current job. No instructing. No airline ground work. (I might have considered it, but I think the mortgage extended by 40K, the time so far put in etc, is about all she can take!)
I won't be giving up though! Back to the drawng board...
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Ah well. You can only go banging your head on the wall for so long. If the job market is so closed then I suppose it isn't a good idea then.
For when the market picks up......Instructing is a damn good way to build experience. When the job market opens up, don't pranny around in what amounts to a piddly simulator. One should remove ones bottom into the air pronto and often 'cause that's what builds ones experience.
As an aside, when it does all pick up (the airline market, etc) there a lot of unhappy bunnies who'll up sticks and go from my employer, and also theres a prospect of our fleet expanding somewhat. depending on some BALPA negitiations. Stick with it people.
And finally, www, you'll need more than just orange socks now matey!
For when the market picks up......Instructing is a damn good way to build experience. When the job market opens up, don't pranny around in what amounts to a piddly simulator. One should remove ones bottom into the air pronto and often 'cause that's what builds ones experience.
As an aside, when it does all pick up (the airline market, etc) there a lot of unhappy bunnies who'll up sticks and go from my employer, and also theres a prospect of our fleet expanding somewhat. depending on some BALPA negitiations. Stick with it people.
And finally, www, you'll need more than just orange socks now matey!
climbs like a dog - I agree with a lot of your opinion. And BTW - its actually going to be a reverse takeover - in a stunning act of cunningness Go has cleverly infiltrated easyJet from where we will slowly change it into Go... the jingle will NEVER die!!
22 instructors laid off from OATS and the whole place under notice to make a profit by Autumn. I can see Barret Homes slavering at the prospect...
WWW
22 instructors laid off from OATS and the whole place under notice to make a profit by Autumn. I can see Barret Homes slavering at the prospect...
WWW
I wouldn't worry unduly. The 22 have gone this year and its not unreasonable for the owners to seek some profit by the end of the summer.
OATS will survive I am confident.
I merely illustrated that its a hard market for flying instructors right now.
WWW
OATS will survive I am confident.
I merely illustrated that its a hard market for flying instructors right now.
WWW
