JAA/ATPL written exam
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2013
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From: Iran
JAA/ATPL written exam
Dear Friends.
I'd be appreciated if you could give some advice and information.
5 years ago I got PPL/CPL/IR+Flight Engineer Licenses with A+ result. Since then I participated in many Airline written/interview/simulator exams with best result among other candidates. But because of lack of favoritism and lack of allegiance to nationality, government banned me from having any aviation-related and government related jobs.
Since then I am a underground aviation tutor in my home.
My Question is do you think is that possible to participate ONLY JAA/ATPL written exams ? I want to participate ONLY those 14 ATPL written exams (NOT flying requirements). If yes what should I do.
Maybe you say I am insane and its a meaningless job to do. But I want to do that for satisfying myself and feeling of accomplishment.
I'd be appreciated if you could give some advice and information.
5 years ago I got PPL/CPL/IR+Flight Engineer Licenses with A+ result. Since then I participated in many Airline written/interview/simulator exams with best result among other candidates. But because of lack of favoritism and lack of allegiance to nationality, government banned me from having any aviation-related and government related jobs.
Since then I am a underground aviation tutor in my home.
My Question is do you think is that possible to participate ONLY JAA/ATPL written exams ? I want to participate ONLY those 14 ATPL written exams (NOT flying requirements). If yes what should I do.
Maybe you say I am insane and its a meaningless job to do. But I want to do that for satisfying myself and feeling of accomplishment.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 408
Likes: 1
From: Europe
Hi there and welcome to the forum!
Check-out the following link, it's a distance learning course provided by a FTO in Switzerland. No personal appearance and no classroom time required, only an ICAO CPL/IR needed. But for taking the exams you must travel to Switzerland, of course.
But be aware, don't underestimate the effort and time you must invest in order to prepare and pass the exams, it can and will be frustrating at times. Keeping up the motivation is also difficult, especially as a lone worrier. Once the exams are passed, the theory credit is only valid for 36 month in which the IR piratical test must be passed, otherwise the credit becomes invalid and all 14 exams must be re-taken.
But let me tell you, once the theoretical exams are out of the way, the flying part (IR/CPL checkride) is not a big thing, especially for someone who already holds an ICAO CPL/IR. This can be done in a week and for little money, for instance in Poland.
Special Conversion Offer Courses - Horizon SFA
Best wishes and good luck!
Check-out the following link, it's a distance learning course provided by a FTO in Switzerland. No personal appearance and no classroom time required, only an ICAO CPL/IR needed. But for taking the exams you must travel to Switzerland, of course.
But be aware, don't underestimate the effort and time you must invest in order to prepare and pass the exams, it can and will be frustrating at times. Keeping up the motivation is also difficult, especially as a lone worrier. Once the exams are passed, the theory credit is only valid for 36 month in which the IR piratical test must be passed, otherwise the credit becomes invalid and all 14 exams must be re-taken.
But let me tell you, once the theoretical exams are out of the way, the flying part (IR/CPL checkride) is not a big thing, especially for someone who already holds an ICAO CPL/IR. This can be done in a week and for little money, for instance in Poland.
Special Conversion Offer Courses - Horizon SFA
Best wishes and good luck!
Last edited by Transsonic2000; 9th June 2013 at 00:46.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,330
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From: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
If there's no classroom time it does not meet the specifications of an approved course.
Otherwise, there's no law that says you can't just do the exams.
Otherwise, there's no law that says you can't just do the exams.
Last edited by paco; 9th June 2013 at 06:02.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 408
Likes: 1
From: Europe
This is a "special conversion" offer for people who already hold an ICAO CPL/IR - that's the reason why there is no classroom time (see requirements at the link provided). And according to JAR-FCL the validation/conversion of a Non-JAA license is at the discretion of each JAA member state.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,330
Likes: 74
From: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Yes, I know - it wasn't JAA compliant then, either.
What you need to think about, if you ever have an accident, and the lawyers decide to trace your training back (which they do in these CYA days), if your training wasn't compliant, they will ask what else is not compliant. No matter if it was set up with the blessing of the Swiss authorities. Just a thought, but it seems you are in a classroom at the moment anyhow.
What you need to think about, if you ever have an accident, and the lawyers decide to trace your training back (which they do in these CYA days), if your training wasn't compliant, they will ask what else is not compliant. No matter if it was set up with the blessing of the Swiss authorities. Just a thought, but it seems you are in a classroom at the moment anyhow.
Last edited by paco; 11th June 2013 at 06:13.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 447
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From: london
paco - what you say is correct for ab-initio cpl/atpl, but article 8 allows for a reduction in training for icao compliant foreign licence conversion which is what the OP is talking about.
It's in CAP804 - Section 4 part Q - but to paraphrase - foreign ATPL holders with a valid type rating are given full credit for training and thus do not require any mandatory theory course or indeed formal flight training and foreign CPL holders may have their training reduced by the theoretical knowledge provider.
It's in CAP804 - Section 4 part Q - but to paraphrase - foreign ATPL holders with a valid type rating are given full credit for training and thus do not require any mandatory theory course or indeed formal flight training and foreign CPL holders may have their training reduced by the theoretical knowledge provider.
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 1,846
Likes: 4
From: Bristol, England
No that's not quite right, CPL holders doing an ATPL theory course get a reduction of time under JAR rules but they still need to do an approved course and there still needs to be 10% classroom time minimum (which is little enough). The FTO can't just ignore the requirements of an approved course for CPL holders, they can only reduce the study time from 650 hours minimum to 450 hours minimum. The UK CAA interpreted this as credit for JAA CPL holders only, the actual regulation was not clear.
CAP 804 is the CAA interpretation of Part-FCL, the EASA rules. As you say, Article 8 is the source rule. An ICAO CPL holder can get a reduction in course duration, number of lessons and specific training hours for a CPL theory course, not for an ATPL theory course, and this reduction has to be agreed by the Authority on the basis of a recommendation from the FTO. The UK CAA currently regard this as a requirement for case-by-case authorisation.
I doubt the Swiss are working to EASA rules, this seems to be an exclusively British folly so far. If they have approved an ATPL course for ICAO CPL holders without a classroom element under JAA rules they can do so, but there is an (admittedly quite small) risk that the license may be identified by someone at a later date as not JAA compliant.
CAP 804 is the CAA interpretation of Part-FCL, the EASA rules. As you say, Article 8 is the source rule. An ICAO CPL holder can get a reduction in course duration, number of lessons and specific training hours for a CPL theory course, not for an ATPL theory course, and this reduction has to be agreed by the Authority on the basis of a recommendation from the FTO. The UK CAA currently regard this as a requirement for case-by-case authorisation.
I doubt the Swiss are working to EASA rules, this seems to be an exclusively British folly so far. If they have approved an ATPL course for ICAO CPL holders without a classroom element under JAA rules they can do so, but there is an (admittedly quite small) risk that the license may be identified by someone at a later date as not JAA compliant.
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
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From: UK
Can anyone help me please
Q) A flight has to be made with the single engine aeroplane. For the fuel calculation allow 10lbs fuel for start up and taxi, 3 mins and 6lbs of additional fuel to allow for the climb, 10 mins and no fuel correction for the descent. Planned flight time (overhead to overhead) is 02 hours and 37 mins. Reserve fuel 30% of the trip fuel. Power setting is 23 in.HG (of full throttle), 2,300 RPM, 20 degree Celsius lean. Flight level 50 and standard day (ISA). The minimum block fuel is.
a. 260 lbs
b. 276 lbs
c. 256 lbs
d. 281 lbs
could you pls explain if know the answer.
thank you
a. 260 lbs
b. 276 lbs
c. 256 lbs
d. 281 lbs
could you pls explain if know the answer.
thank you
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,330
Likes: 74
From: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
First of all you need CAP 697,SEP 1 section page 6 (Table 2.2.3). That will give you a fuel flow of 68 lbs per hour (rounded up).
They have given you times for climb and descent, which is a hint that they should be added to the cruise time, the total makes 2.9 hours (rounded up).
2.9 x 68 = 197.2 + 6 (fuel correction for climb) makes 203.2 lbs for the trip fuel. The reserve is 30% of that, so divide by 1.3, take away the result from the trip fuel and add the remainder (46.89) to get 250.09. Add the start up and taxi fuel of 10 lbs to get 260, answer A. At least that's what I think it is
Isn't this in the wrong thread?
They have given you times for climb and descent, which is a hint that they should be added to the cruise time, the total makes 2.9 hours (rounded up).
2.9 x 68 = 197.2 + 6 (fuel correction for climb) makes 203.2 lbs for the trip fuel. The reserve is 30% of that, so divide by 1.3, take away the result from the trip fuel and add the remainder (46.89) to get 250.09. Add the start up and taxi fuel of 10 lbs to get 260, answer A. At least that's what I think it is
Isn't this in the wrong thread?
Last edited by paco; 15th June 2013 at 19:01.
