PPP or ATPL?
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PPP or ATPL?
Can you help me? I want to learn in a schoo in USA , i heard that there are good schools. Would I be able to join a european company or asian with the license from USA? where shoul i go to learn?
There are several options that allow you to get both the American (FAA) and teh European (JAA/EASA) types of licenses.
This would then allow you to pretty much work anywhere in the world.
This would then allow you to pretty much work anywhere in the world.
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First of all it's only ATPL. If you meant PPL by writing "PPP" then you can't work with a PPL.
Now, yes you can work with a FAA CPL/ATP but the problem is that you wouldn't be allowed on European registered aircraft with a FAA licence. You either go to America and then convert your FAA licence to the EASA equivalent or you go straight for the EASA. The second way, sometimes, is even cheaper.
Now, yes you can work with a FAA CPL/ATP but the problem is that you wouldn't be allowed on European registered aircraft with a FAA licence. You either go to America and then convert your FAA licence to the EASA equivalent or you go straight for the EASA. The second way, sometimes, is even cheaper.
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You will not be able to fly any EASA aircraft registered in an EU member state or even a 'N' registered aircraft if it is being operated by an operator based in the EU.
Simply speaking, if you want to operate in Europe you WILL need an EASA Part-FCL licence.
To obtain an EASA professional licence you will either need to go down the Integrated CPL/IR route (say goodbye to £80,000+ in the UK) although there are plenty of schools in other EU countries far cheaper - one in Greece charges 60,000 Euros) or you can go down the Modular route where you first need a PPL(A) and then you need to do the 14 x ATPL examinations - you need these on the integrated - as well as CPL(A), IR(A) and MEP Rating courses. With 200 hours total time you can apply for a CPL/IR. You then need to complete a MCC course and Type Rating (another £25,000) before applying for your first job. Of course you could be lucky enough to find an airine that will sponsor you......
Go down the FAA route and you will find things a tad cheaper, but you require 250 hours for CPL(A) issue and also last year the FAA issued a proposal that all airline pilots engaged in passenger operations would require a minimum of 1,500 hours - I'm not sure where that proposal went.
You will also need to be able to speak and understand English to a certain minimum level (ICAO Level 4) although in reality the introduction of that requirement by some countries has been laughable with Level 6 (Expert) being handed out like confetti at a wedding gala.
That's the basic info - I hope it is of some use and best of luck.
Simply speaking, if you want to operate in Europe you WILL need an EASA Part-FCL licence.
To obtain an EASA professional licence you will either need to go down the Integrated CPL/IR route (say goodbye to £80,000+ in the UK) although there are plenty of schools in other EU countries far cheaper - one in Greece charges 60,000 Euros) or you can go down the Modular route where you first need a PPL(A) and then you need to do the 14 x ATPL examinations - you need these on the integrated - as well as CPL(A), IR(A) and MEP Rating courses. With 200 hours total time you can apply for a CPL/IR. You then need to complete a MCC course and Type Rating (another £25,000) before applying for your first job. Of course you could be lucky enough to find an airine that will sponsor you......
Go down the FAA route and you will find things a tad cheaper, but you require 250 hours for CPL(A) issue and also last year the FAA issued a proposal that all airline pilots engaged in passenger operations would require a minimum of 1,500 hours - I'm not sure where that proposal went.
You will also need to be able to speak and understand English to a certain minimum level (ICAO Level 4) although in reality the introduction of that requirement by some countries has been laughable with Level 6 (Expert) being handed out like confetti at a wedding gala.
That's the basic info - I hope it is of some use and best of luck.
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"You will not be able to fly any EASA aircraft registered in an EU member state or even a 'N' registered aircraft if it is being operated by an operator based in the EU."
Do you have a reference for this 'N' registered quote? Thanks.
Do you have a reference for this 'N' registered quote? Thanks.
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It can be found in EU Regulations 216/2008 and 1178/2011 but easier to read (I don't believe I'm, saying this!!) CAP 804, Sec.1, Part C, Para 1.2 (Page 35):
"Any pilot who intends to fly an “EASA aircraft” registered in the EU after the applicable dates will have to hold an appropriate EASA licence (or a validation if he has a licence from a country that is not an EASA Member State). In some circumstances the licensing requirements will also apply to the pilots of EASA aircraft registered outside the EU;
(see Section 4, Part Q)."
Part Q Sub-Part 1
"The Basic EASA Regulation and the EASA “Aircrew Regulation” requires all pilots:
a) flying an EASA aircraft registered in the EU; or
b) flying an EASA aircraft registered in a State outside the EU but whose operator is resident or established in the EU;
to hold either an EASA licence, or a non-EU licence that is validated by an EU Member State in accordance with the EASA Aircrew Regulation.
The EASA Aircrew Regulation provides for Member States not to require the validation of non-EU licences for non-commercial flights in accordance with EU regulations until 8 April 2014."
An EASA aircraft is simply ANY aircraft that can hold a Type Certificate, with the exception of certain aircraft, e.g. ex-military types, irrespective of the country in which it is registered.
The validation referred to is a concession by the competent authority, e.g. UK CAA, to allow holders of non-EASA ICAO licences to operate EASA aircraft on that 'foreign' licence for a period of one year only, except that the period may be extended for a further one year maximum but only if the person can demonstrate that s/he has commenced an approved course of theoretical knowledge towards the gaining of the EASA Part-FCL licence.
The validation process is really designed for professional pilots to give them time to convert their ICAO ATPL/CPL to an EASA equivalent.
I work in the industry and know many persons converting overseas licences in order to keep their jobs in the EU; it is a massive bone of contention that they MUST undertake the 14 x EASA ATPL examinations before they can be issued an EASA licence, despite their 10,000+ hours on heavy aircraft!!
Private owner/operators can continue to fly their 'N' reg aircraft until 8th April 2014 without licence validation.
As per usual, this is a minefield of regulation and takes some doing to decipher. It would have helped if the documents - significantly the respective Acceptable Means of Compliance to Part-FCL, Part MED et al and CAP 804 - had been given some thought and planned properly - as it is they are an absolute mess.
"Any pilot who intends to fly an “EASA aircraft” registered in the EU after the applicable dates will have to hold an appropriate EASA licence (or a validation if he has a licence from a country that is not an EASA Member State). In some circumstances the licensing requirements will also apply to the pilots of EASA aircraft registered outside the EU;
(see Section 4, Part Q)."
Part Q Sub-Part 1
"The Basic EASA Regulation and the EASA “Aircrew Regulation” requires all pilots:
a) flying an EASA aircraft registered in the EU; or
b) flying an EASA aircraft registered in a State outside the EU but whose operator is resident or established in the EU;
to hold either an EASA licence, or a non-EU licence that is validated by an EU Member State in accordance with the EASA Aircrew Regulation.
The EASA Aircrew Regulation provides for Member States not to require the validation of non-EU licences for non-commercial flights in accordance with EU regulations until 8 April 2014."
An EASA aircraft is simply ANY aircraft that can hold a Type Certificate, with the exception of certain aircraft, e.g. ex-military types, irrespective of the country in which it is registered.
The validation referred to is a concession by the competent authority, e.g. UK CAA, to allow holders of non-EASA ICAO licences to operate EASA aircraft on that 'foreign' licence for a period of one year only, except that the period may be extended for a further one year maximum but only if the person can demonstrate that s/he has commenced an approved course of theoretical knowledge towards the gaining of the EASA Part-FCL licence.
The validation process is really designed for professional pilots to give them time to convert their ICAO ATPL/CPL to an EASA equivalent.
I work in the industry and know many persons converting overseas licences in order to keep their jobs in the EU; it is a massive bone of contention that they MUST undertake the 14 x EASA ATPL examinations before they can be issued an EASA licence, despite their 10,000+ hours on heavy aircraft!!
Private owner/operators can continue to fly their 'N' reg aircraft until 8th April 2014 without licence validation.
As per usual, this is a minefield of regulation and takes some doing to decipher. It would have helped if the documents - significantly the respective Acceptable Means of Compliance to Part-FCL, Part MED et al and CAP 804 - had been given some thought and planned properly - as it is they are an absolute mess.
Last edited by 2close; 10th Feb 2013 at 09:04.
