Looking to start ATPL theory

[Odai]

Hello,

I passed my PPL skills test last week, and am looking ahead to what I may want to do with my flying.

My intention at this time is to continue towards commercial training, and as a result I'm making arrangements to start hour building (1-3 hours a week) soon and more importantly begin studying for the ATPL theory.

The most convenient time for me to do this is between now and this September, when I expect to have less free time to devote to this (I am currently balancing this with University work, but am on temporary leave so have more free time than usual). As a result, I'd be looking to hopefully pass all the exams within 6 months. I'm confident I can spend at least a few hours a day studying for this, perhaps more. It would definitely be by distance learning, as opposed to an 'in-house' course.

My two options are CATS and Bristol. It would seem at first that CATS is the better choice, due to more flexible pricing options and also being given permanent access to the online training system, which would be great for future reference after passing the exams. Bristol on the other hand do not give you access to the software updates after finishing the course, so any material you have would become more and more outdated with time. Another concern also is BGS do not allow you to start until receiving your license, which will most likely take a while due to delays in sorting out the paperwork for my application.

Another thing I need to consider is how the material is presented - I am coming from a scientific background (I study Physics). When I did my PPL, I used both the AFE and Pooleys series of books. I found the AFE books slightly worse from my perspective, as the way the technical/science related material was presented seemed to assume less background scientific understanding. I therefore ended up wasting a little time working through over-simplified explanations of certain concepts (to the point of sometimes being technically incorrect), which ended up making it more difficult to understand. The Pooleys books were a bit better in this respect. Are there any such differences between the way the CATS and BGS theory is presented? Is one more 'geared' towards students who are more scientifically minded than the other?

Another issue I came across while looking into this is that of compulsory study time. I knew already that there was a significant amount of compulsory classroom time (I think about 50 hours?) which is covered by the revision courses ('brush-up' at CATS). However, I spoke to somebody at CATS who informed me there was also a mandated minimum of time to spend studying the actual material prior to this, and that it could be assessed by looking at the length of time I spend logged into the online system (I think it was about 600 hours). What if I manage to attain a good standard in all the subjects in less than this time, or if I spend some of this time learning from the books instead?

I'd greatly appreciate any feedback on these questions, the pros/cons of CATS/BGS, or indeed anything related to the theory course.

[packo1848]

Can't comment on CATS, but I've done my ATPLs so far with BGS (just booked the last set of exams).

Good Parts of the course:

-The material is well set out and the CBT is very easy to use and to track your progress on.
-The Brush-up courses are excellent, the instructors are brilliant at what they do. I found rather than being purely revision courses I was learning quite a bit as well.
-The feedback system seems to work very well, they have a good idea of what you can expect in the exams and you can prepare well for it. This includes those rare questions where the examiner has a slightly different answer to what you might expect.
-The QB I personally found very useful, it splits each subject down into individual topic scores allowing you to quickly and easily identify any weak areas to concentrate on. You can also test yourself purely on these areas if you so wish.
-If you are looking to do it all quite quickly I'd say 2 sittings of exams is better than 3, it all adds up to roughly the same time away but theres less of a mess around factor when only doing it twice (assuming no re-sits).
-You have use of the ATP forum, which is frequented by the instructors at Bristol, a useful tool if you have a burning question.
-The technical support for the CBT is excellent, I had an issue with mine recently (turned out to be an issue with my computer taking a few hours to catch up with the software) and they were extremely helpful in rectifying it over the phone/email.

Disadvantages:

-As you mentioned above; price and non-permanent access to the updates.
-Splitting the exams into 2 sittings is quite some workload, the 1st module is 8 exams which is quite a lot to study for in one go (albeit I found them easier than I'm finding mod 2). Also granted here you don't have to sit the exams in 2 sittings, you can split them into as many sittings as you like within the limits.

The assumed knowledge in the ATPLs is probably around GCSE level, so with a science background you may find that some of it is teaching you to suck eggs. I wouldn't treat it as such though, I found thinking too deep into some areas just lead me astray and I just had to accept what was written in the text book.

As for BGS not allowing you to start before receiving your licence, have you phoned and explained your situation? I have a sneaking suspicion the girls on the desk may be happy to send you the materials while you're waiting on your licence, don't hold me to that though.

Good luck with it

[Odai]

Many thanks for your great post, will take that into account.

Best of luck also with the last of your exams!

[portos8]

Bristol Groundschool is a nice system, though a bit pricy I do think you get value for money. Some schools using Bristol allow you to spread the exams over a longer period so worth looking into a more "flexible" approach.

[ATIS31]

Have you thought about ProPilot at Coventry ? I went to a openday last year
and am considering going to them, has anyone recent experience on their Distance Learning Course ?

[BYR]

Hey Odai,

I'm in the same situation as you. It is possible to start your ATPLs without your actual license at Bristol. However they told me that the EASA rules state that you need it prior to starting on ATPL. Do you think it would cause a problem to start now? Im currently waiting for my license to arrive.

[Odai]

Hey guys,

BYR, if Bristol are willing to send you the materials before getting the license I'm guessing then it won't be an issue with EASA, assuming you're just getting a head start on the material?

I've also just looked into the courses at Oxford and Profpilot. Any feedback on these?

The Oxford course doesn't seem to be ideal due to not all the material being online and the highly structured (ie non-flexible) nature of their course. Not to mention the price, which is higher than Bristol.

I'm still confused also about the EASA mandated minimum hours for study at home (quoted as being anywhere from around 500 to 600 hours). Would it be an issue if I got to a good standard after logging less than this time?

[Sovi3tskiy]

With Bristol GS its great, but you need to be in control, have a set traget and plan, the 2 sittings thing isnt needed, when I did mine a few people sat 4 or 5 of the exams then the others a month later or so on just to make it easier, but you can only do the exams if you did the brush up course on that topic!

Fun, great guys Bristol Gs, pro's at what they do, the only disadvantages I guess is finding accommodation, If they would have onsite some kind of hostel would be good, as when you book now you have to fight for places and you can get shafted and pay a lot for the 4 weeks total...

[packo1848]

Odai, don't worry about any minimum hours to study at home; you'll easily clock hours up reading through the material, taking progress tests and revising. I don't even think they're recorded to be honest, may be wrong though.

[redsnail]

When my hubby came over to the UK to convert his ATPL. He went to Bristol. He said that they were the best theory providers he's ever seen and experienced.
Given at the time he had over 7,000 hours and 3 jet types on his licence + he was a former theory and flight instructor, his assessment had some basis of merit.

This is not a sponsored advert for BGS.

[Odai]

Thanks again for your responses guys.

I would go for Bristol, but the real killer is the 4 weeks total in brush up courses. I've always learnt best on my own, and this has been apparent from my university studies. So the brush up courses for me would really just be box ticking, which is frustrating.

In this regard I think Profpilot is ideal, as they only require your presence in Coventry for 12 days total I think, but they do not offer any electronic learning material (apart from the ipad software). I'd be OK with going to Oxford for the 4 weeks total as I'm very fond of the city, but again the course price is extortionate and they also do not offer the full course in an electronic format.

I guess an option could be to register on the Profpilot course and buy the Bristol software (ATP Digital), for £500, but this really is expensive. Or just any third party software from an aviation supplier (I see that Oxford have their OATMedia line available publicly).

/sigh

[redsnail]

The brush ups aren't there to teach you. They're there to prepare you for the exams. Think of it as exam technique revision.

[go around flaps15]

I completed my ATPLS a few years ago and had one or two problems with Performance.

After a recommendation from a friend I decided to go for a performance brush up in Bristol Ground School.

I had a really nice instructor who brought me through the various parts of the subject that I was finding difficult. I felt very confident leaving the brush up,and really felt I had a better understanding of the subject. I passed the exam no problems at all.

Performance forms an integral part of every single working day that I have(737-800 2500 hours)

It was a subject that I hated and just could not get my head around the day before I went for the brush up at BGS,but it changed into a subject that I both enjoy and find very interesting to this day.

BGS worked for me

[Flaymy]

Have you looked at CAPT? They have shorter brush-up courses, and a more convenient location for a lot of people.

[taxistaxing]

Odai,

I looked a BGS and was impressed with what I saw. However I went with CATS in the end, mainly because of the flexibility they offer (they are also substantially cheaper than BGS, particularly if you go for the on-line only course). After a quick look at the CATS notes I bought an old copy of BGS materials from eBay and have used these as the cornerstone of my study. In my opinion they are clearer than the CATS offering and it has been useful having reference to two sources of notes as having alternative explanations of concepts aids understanding.

You will find that the brush-ups really are just the icing on the cake and a hoop you are required to jump through by the CAA. In fact, CATS themselves advise that you don't attend a brush-up until you're consistently scoring 80% + in practise papers. Therefore I wouldn't give too much weight to the brush-up courses when choosing which school you go with.

The content of the course isn't that difficult. The people who seem to struggle with the course are the people who are not used to study, either because they haven't ever done any or because it's years since they left school/university. It undoubtedly takes quite a bit of self discipline - in my case getting up at 5:30am every morning, and working through to 8:30 before leaving for work. I've found that this has been enough to achieve decent (i.e. 90% +) results in the exams I have taken so far (fingers crossed for the results I'm currently awaiting ).

I'd also say that you should be at significant advantage coming from a scientific background. You'll probably know more than most of the tutors, and also you will have developed the ability to study independently during your degree which should be a big help.

[Odai]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Flaymy, I had a look at CAPT but it seems they also run their brush up courses for two weeks, similar to BGS.

Taxistaxing, I also considered going for the £999 course at CATS, and simply purchasing material, whether digital or printed, elsewhere. From the sample that is online, it doesn't seem the notes are all that good.

With regards to the brush-ups, my main issue with them is the amount of time I'll have to spend in (and pay for) accommodation, travel arrangements etc. So the shorter/fewer the better. This is the real killer with regards to BGS, two weeks is simply too long for me.

CATS is more manageable, with Profpilot seemingly the best in this regard, but with the latter being relatively expensive.

I wish you all the best for your remaining exam results!

[Odai]

These two sets look particularly good with an attractive price:

Complete Set of 15 Jeppesen ATPL Manuals - Detailed item view - Leading Flight Equipment, Pilot Supplies, Aircraft Equipment, Aviation Headsets

Oxford ATPL(A) Manual Volumes 1-14 on CD - Detailed item view - Leading Flight Equipment, Pilot Supplies, Aircraft Equipment, Aviation Headsets

If I were to go with both sets and the £999 course at CATS, it should cover everything and still come out relatively cheap.

EDIT: It now seems the course at CATS is £400 more expensive than when I last checked - talk about a missed opportunity!

[Richard Phillips]

Odai,

Don't worry - CATS do the ATPL's for £999 still. You just have to ask & say that you don't have the ipad.

I did this yesterday. As i already had the free PPL account, i was given access within 20-minutes, which is pretty good.

You should be able to find online versions of certain books at no cost if you use google.

[paco]

"I had a look at CAPT but it seems they also run their brush up courses for two weeks, similar to BGS. "

"two weeks is simply too long for me. "

You simply are not going to get it in less than two weeks - you have to do 65 hours in the classroom (minimum) and there are duty hours regulations to abide by - 6 hours per day. That's just over more than 10 working days.

[ford cortina]

You say you can complete in 6 months. With only a few hours a day.
I think you will find that rather difficult.
Any way you look at it, you will have to do some residential.
Bristol have one of the best reputations. It is worth it