CAA - be careful!
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CAA - be careful! (the sober edit)
Okay, here’s the sober edit.
As you can tell if you know yer ICAO airport designator codes, I am an Oxfordshire resident, so naturally want to sit my ATPL exams in Oxford, thereby avoiding extra travel and subsidence expenses.
To this end, I sent in my application form to the CAA in early February. A couple of days later I received a receipt for the sum of £718, taken from my credit card. I thought fair enough, an outrageous yet unavoidable fee nonetheless, and naturally assumed in lieu of anything to the contrary, the application was accepted as submitted.
2 months later, still hadn’t received any other documentation, other than the receipt so sent an email asking where I should go and at what time, etc.
Got a reply back a day or two later basically implying they’d lost my booking and now my venue of choice was fully booked. Offered Gatwick. Not good, because brief investigation shown only accommodation available £40 per night Travel Lodge, meaning the cost of living in the vicinity of Gatwick for a week would be approximately £250 – enough dosh to take Ms. Gin Slinger away for sex’n’alcohol weekender in Brussels, but that’s maybe something more of a Jet Blast topic.
Proceeded to phone CAA up to ‘discuss’ the situation, but response was most unhelpful. A sort of 'not the least bit interested and why are you wasting my time by calling' tone to the conversation. Not even a hint of an apology for the extra expense entailed by what is basically shoddy administration on their part. When I suggested they waive part of their charge to the value of the extra costs incurred because of their incompetence, well, you can guess the answer…
Other gripes:
SFT: an ‘approved’ school. The scope of approvals seem to go into such depth as documenting the correct method of handing out paper clips, yet fails to properly investigate the school’s financial stability. Rather more fundamentally important than the magic marker to white board ratio.
Mate(1): made to sit exams in Prestwick, when all the rest of his class got into their favoured venue of Gatwick. Apparently, the exam hall at Gatwick had loads of spaces where he could have sat. Similar to my case, the CAA couldn’t give a monkeys about the expense and inconvenience their over-priced, mediocre bureaucracy causes.
Mate (2): FAA PPL holder, which was converted into a JAA one. All was fine until he tried to an IMC rating. No RT licence – apparently not required for issue of the PPL in this circumstance, but required to add the IMC rating to it. Mate(2) was instructed to go away and take the RT practical, despite having 160 hrs and passing the IMC skills test. Fee most certainly wasn’t returned.
To sum up, relating to flight training and licencing, the CAA seems to have a parasitic relationship with the student pilot fraternity. Perhaps we need a regulator to regulate the regulator, or better still, simply dump CAA/JAA and place ourselves under the FAA sphere of influence. Not thought this through so no doubt you’ll find it easy to pick holes in this.
As you can tell if you know yer ICAO airport designator codes, I am an Oxfordshire resident, so naturally want to sit my ATPL exams in Oxford, thereby avoiding extra travel and subsidence expenses.
To this end, I sent in my application form to the CAA in early February. A couple of days later I received a receipt for the sum of £718, taken from my credit card. I thought fair enough, an outrageous yet unavoidable fee nonetheless, and naturally assumed in lieu of anything to the contrary, the application was accepted as submitted.
2 months later, still hadn’t received any other documentation, other than the receipt so sent an email asking where I should go and at what time, etc.
Got a reply back a day or two later basically implying they’d lost my booking and now my venue of choice was fully booked. Offered Gatwick. Not good, because brief investigation shown only accommodation available £40 per night Travel Lodge, meaning the cost of living in the vicinity of Gatwick for a week would be approximately £250 – enough dosh to take Ms. Gin Slinger away for sex’n’alcohol weekender in Brussels, but that’s maybe something more of a Jet Blast topic.
Proceeded to phone CAA up to ‘discuss’ the situation, but response was most unhelpful. A sort of 'not the least bit interested and why are you wasting my time by calling' tone to the conversation. Not even a hint of an apology for the extra expense entailed by what is basically shoddy administration on their part. When I suggested they waive part of their charge to the value of the extra costs incurred because of their incompetence, well, you can guess the answer…
Other gripes:
SFT: an ‘approved’ school. The scope of approvals seem to go into such depth as documenting the correct method of handing out paper clips, yet fails to properly investigate the school’s financial stability. Rather more fundamentally important than the magic marker to white board ratio.
Mate(1): made to sit exams in Prestwick, when all the rest of his class got into their favoured venue of Gatwick. Apparently, the exam hall at Gatwick had loads of spaces where he could have sat. Similar to my case, the CAA couldn’t give a monkeys about the expense and inconvenience their over-priced, mediocre bureaucracy causes.
Mate (2): FAA PPL holder, which was converted into a JAA one. All was fine until he tried to an IMC rating. No RT licence – apparently not required for issue of the PPL in this circumstance, but required to add the IMC rating to it. Mate(2) was instructed to go away and take the RT practical, despite having 160 hrs and passing the IMC skills test. Fee most certainly wasn’t returned.
To sum up, relating to flight training and licencing, the CAA seems to have a parasitic relationship with the student pilot fraternity. Perhaps we need a regulator to regulate the regulator, or better still, simply dump CAA/JAA and place ourselves under the FAA sphere of influence. Not thought this through so no doubt you’ll find it easy to pick holes in this.
Last edited by Gin Slinger; 11th Apr 2002 at 23:20.
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I agree. I've had nothing but aggro and excuses when dealing with the 'c###s against aviation'. On the other hand the FAA have always been very helpful and don't charge like wounded Rhinos.
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The CAA comes in for a lot of stick but I have found the level of service is quite diferent depending on the department the engineering department is normaly quite good and so was engineer licencing when it was run by the engineers.
How ever the part of the CAA that most of you deal with is flight crew licencing and they are the worst part of the CAA to deal with by a mile !.
So please if you have a gripe with the CAA aim it at the guilty party and not the CAA as a whole.
How ever the part of the CAA that most of you deal with is flight crew licencing and they are the worst part of the CAA to deal with by a mile !.
So please if you have a gripe with the CAA aim it at the guilty party and not the CAA as a whole.
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I doubt if those who have ever had dealings certainly on the FCL side need further explanation Grainger.
I considered posting my gripes with them but decided that I couldn't spare the time.
I will summarise by stealing a line from another post 'they are grossly incompetent and the staff are disinterested.' and by saying 'they are a shower of ****' .
Shame aviation isn't controlled by the FAA but then again they would be far to fair and logical.
I considered posting my gripes with them but decided that I couldn't spare the time.
I will summarise by stealing a line from another post 'they are grossly incompetent and the staff are disinterested.' and by saying 'they are a shower of ****' .
Shame aviation isn't controlled by the FAA but then again they would be far to fair and logical.
Last edited by somewhatconcerned; 11th Apr 2002 at 21:27.
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hmmmnnnn.
Says on their website they give the same priority to phone calls, emails and 'snail mail' enquiries. I decided to email to request an application form to unfreeze my ATPL. Only took exactly 1 month for it to arrive, thank God I didn't phone..........................!
PP
Says on their website they give the same priority to phone calls, emails and 'snail mail' enquiries. I decided to email to request an application form to unfreeze my ATPL. Only took exactly 1 month for it to arrive, thank God I didn't phone..........................!
PP
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Had some really positive experieces (again the Medical section, e.g.) andsome really poor ones (you ever tried to get FCL on the phone? Even as an intructor in an approved school we can't always talk to the people we need to speak to). Would therefore agree that they are good if you get lucky, terrible if not, and not worth the money we pay.
JAA seem to be worse
JAA seem to be worse
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E-mailed them on the 8th as I had not had confirmation of my July sitting of the exams.Got an e-mail back later that day saying that they were not booking July for another couple of weeks.
E-mailed them back to the effect I needed to book leave etc....9 minutes later exam booking confirmed.
E-mailed them back to the effect I needed to book leave etc....9 minutes later exam booking confirmed.
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There is a chap called Simon White at CAA FCL who is very helpful and seems to appreciate the concerns of those undergoing advanced flying training.
I have found the CAA very efficient on the few occasions I have dealt with them.
I have found the CAA very efficient on the few occasions I have dealt with them.
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The main problem with the CAA and all other agencies is that we only hear the bad stories... Ever seen anybody going to such great depth as GS with a positive story? And believe me there are plenty of those stories.
Just look around in our industry:
1) it starts by slagging of your bank for not giving you the money
2) then it is your instructor for not appreciating your abilities
3) then it is the CFI for not siging you off
4) then the CAA for the above mentioned items
5) then the lady in Personnel for not hiring you
6) then the training captain for being too heavy on you
7) then the base captain for not giving you your wanted base
8) then the Flight Ops Dir for not giving you a left seat
9) then the management for retiring you too late
10)then God for let you die too early
Fortunately their is one stability factor in this: YOU the aviatior who will never make any mistake (like landing on the taxiway at LGW, busting a level, etc.)
Believe me when you are at LGW go to the FCL desk and look through the window behind the desk, do you see people with their feet on the table planning how to screw a few more students?? No because they work their butts of to meet the turn around times with a minimal staff to keep the (your) cost down. Ever wondered why it can take a while to get them on the phone? Again look through the window for the answer: they are working hard.
I have had some very positive and some negative encounters with the CAA but found that I have always been helped with the utmost respect and flexibility.:o
Just look around in our industry:
1) it starts by slagging of your bank for not giving you the money
2) then it is your instructor for not appreciating your abilities
3) then it is the CFI for not siging you off
4) then the CAA for the above mentioned items
5) then the lady in Personnel for not hiring you
6) then the training captain for being too heavy on you
7) then the base captain for not giving you your wanted base
8) then the Flight Ops Dir for not giving you a left seat
9) then the management for retiring you too late
10)then God for let you die too early
Fortunately their is one stability factor in this: YOU the aviatior who will never make any mistake (like landing on the taxiway at LGW, busting a level, etc.)
Believe me when you are at LGW go to the FCL desk and look through the window behind the desk, do you see people with their feet on the table planning how to screw a few more students?? No because they work their butts of to meet the turn around times with a minimal staff to keep the (your) cost down. Ever wondered why it can take a while to get them on the phone? Again look through the window for the answer: they are working hard.
I have had some very positive and some negative encounters with the CAA but found that I have always been helped with the utmost respect and flexibility.:o
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Dutchie
Quote:
No because they work their butts of to meet the turn around times with a minimal staff to keep the (your) cost down.
I respect what you are trying to say, and as the son of a Dutch mother I can read through your English as well, but the above, I totaly disagree with. If they where driven to keep costs to a minimum, how can you justify some of their charges? I'm not even going to start listing them here as we all know what they are. The only one that's good value for money is the change of address one.
btw, I've had like most people good nd bad experiences from the Belgrano. It always helps to remember that at the end of the day, you are dealing with people.
PS
Quote:
No because they work their butts of to meet the turn around times with a minimal staff to keep the (your) cost down.
I respect what you are trying to say, and as the son of a Dutch mother I can read through your English as well, but the above, I totaly disagree with. If they where driven to keep costs to a minimum, how can you justify some of their charges? I'm not even going to start listing them here as we all know what they are. The only one that's good value for money is the change of address one.
btw, I've had like most people good nd bad experiences from the Belgrano. It always helps to remember that at the end of the day, you are dealing with people.
PS
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Mid-March I applied to sit the June exams in Silsoe.
Despite two (!) receipts for the cheque, I havent had any confirmation of location etc from the CAA.
Has anybody else? Do I need to start chasing them yet?
Thanks
Despite two (!) receipts for the cheque, I havent had any confirmation of location etc from the CAA.
Has anybody else? Do I need to start chasing them yet?
Thanks
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jma - yes, chase.
The test for all of these pseudo-private sector government agencies is would you be happy with that level of service if they were in a competitive sector, i.e. would you be a repeat customer or would you take your hard earned money else where.
They would certainly have lost my business after the little episode with them.
Does anyone know how the fees are decided? Does the CAA have carte blanch (the Anglised spelling) to charge what the want?
The test for all of these pseudo-private sector government agencies is would you be happy with that level of service if they were in a competitive sector, i.e. would you be a repeat customer or would you take your hard earned money else where.
They would certainly have lost my business after the little episode with them.
Does anyone know how the fees are decided? Does the CAA have carte blanch (the Anglised spelling) to charge what the want?