Progression and cost to become an airline pilot?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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Progression and cost to become an airline pilot?
I have a nephew who has decided against a career in military aviation and is aiming at a career in civil aviation. He will be 18 in November and presently doing his PPL.
In broad terms what licences would he need before being employable?
In equally broad terms what would be the cost in UK for getting his licences?
I presume a US Flying College might be less expensive. Again what in broad terms would he get and at what cost?
I have pointed him at Pprune but do not know if he has bothered to listen to an OF.
In broad terms what licences would he need before being employable?
In equally broad terms what would be the cost in UK for getting his licences?
I presume a US Flying College might be less expensive. Again what in broad terms would he get and at what cost?
I have pointed him at Pprune but do not know if he has bothered to listen to an OF.
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There is a search function at the top, also simply googling what you want to know will usually come up with Pprune threads.
In essence if he is already going for a PPL then that is the first step towards a modular licence. He will need to complete ATPL groundschool (Airline Transport Pilot Licence) and then complete his commercial pilot licence and an instrument rating.
The instrument rating is the most expensive bit, since for it to be valid on multi engine aircraft, it must be taken in one, overall cost for the whole lot is going to be around £60k.
Once you have ATPL ground school + CPL + multi engine IR you have what is generally referred to as a "frozen ATPL". This isn't a legal term, but is used industry wide to describe a CPL with IR and ATPL studies.
In theory you would then get a job, work for a couple of years to build 1500 hours and 500 multicrew, you could then do a test and apply for a full ATPL. Don't get confused, you will not have a full ATPL until you have decent airline experience.
The reality is very few airlines are hiring people with a frozen ATPL and the bare minimum of 2-300 hours. you would therefore need to look at other avenues such as instruction (£7k for the rating) or other smaller single crew jobs you could get to build more experience.
In terms of going to America, I have no idea on that but you would have an FAA rather than an EASA aircraft, which means European airlines wouldn't be interested until you did a conversion course.
In essence if he is already going for a PPL then that is the first step towards a modular licence. He will need to complete ATPL groundschool (Airline Transport Pilot Licence) and then complete his commercial pilot licence and an instrument rating.
The instrument rating is the most expensive bit, since for it to be valid on multi engine aircraft, it must be taken in one, overall cost for the whole lot is going to be around £60k.
Once you have ATPL ground school + CPL + multi engine IR you have what is generally referred to as a "frozen ATPL". This isn't a legal term, but is used industry wide to describe a CPL with IR and ATPL studies.
In theory you would then get a job, work for a couple of years to build 1500 hours and 500 multicrew, you could then do a test and apply for a full ATPL. Don't get confused, you will not have a full ATPL until you have decent airline experience.
The reality is very few airlines are hiring people with a frozen ATPL and the bare minimum of 2-300 hours. you would therefore need to look at other avenues such as instruction (£7k for the rating) or other smaller single crew jobs you could get to build more experience.
In terms of going to America, I have no idea on that but you would have an FAA rather than an EASA aircraft, which means European airlines wouldn't be interested until you did a conversion course.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Thread Starter
RTN, I did think of Google and the search but your concise answer is exactly the level I was seeking. I knew the step, just not the right order 
£60k is a reasonable target but as daddy will be funding him and daddy can't afford to fund him at that level there are two choices. Stagger the whole over an affordable time scale or sell his house.
As you say, there is not necessarily a job at the end of that tunnel.
Thank you.
£60k is a reasonable target but as daddy will be funding him and daddy can't afford to fund him at that level there are two choices. Stagger the whole over an affordable time scale or sell his house.
As you say, there is not necessarily a job at the end of that tunnel.
Thank you.
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US flying school incl. conversions etc would not make the final bill that different.
Working in US is nearly impossible, unless he has US passport/work permit.
Deciding against military aviation in my opinion is probably not really a choice you do, as competition is fierce.
The real cost if you are going to have a fair chance of getting a job would probably be close to £90 - £100K, as in todays market you would need to either get into an airline scheme with integrated school, or do modular and pay your own type rating in the end, example with Ryanair.
And let's be clear, pay is not what many people imagine it is. So before deciding against military aviation, where all training is "free", he should do a bit research, as there are currently thousands of pilots with few hundred hours, "fully qualified", but unable to get any jobs!
Search forums here for various cadet schemes, they are far and few in-between, but would give better odds and tips how to invest your money!
I personally have no regrets for doing this, but I would not recommend anybody this path, specially if you need to borrow money on your parents house. Expect the worst, and hope for the best! Good luck!
Working in US is nearly impossible, unless he has US passport/work permit.
Deciding against military aviation in my opinion is probably not really a choice you do, as competition is fierce.
The real cost if you are going to have a fair chance of getting a job would probably be close to £90 - £100K, as in todays market you would need to either get into an airline scheme with integrated school, or do modular and pay your own type rating in the end, example with Ryanair.
And let's be clear, pay is not what many people imagine it is. So before deciding against military aviation, where all training is "free", he should do a bit research, as there are currently thousands of pilots with few hundred hours, "fully qualified", but unable to get any jobs!
Search forums here for various cadet schemes, they are far and few in-between, but would give better odds and tips how to invest your money!
I personally have no regrets for doing this, but I would not recommend anybody this path, specially if you need to borrow money on your parents house. Expect the worst, and hope for the best! Good luck!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Thread Starter
Truckflyer, thanks for the US school input. I agree that the job prospects are not that great and having observed the operating crews from an SLF perspective I am glad I did my world tours in my own aircraft. Uncomfortable it may have been but no security hassles, normally a 10 hour day and very exceptionally 16 and usually gentleman's hours like a 10am launch.
Operating a bus to Alicante and back a few times and I would soon be so bored.
Operating a bus to Alicante and back a few times and I would soon be so bored.
At his age I would recommend he finishes some sort of (back-up plan) degree before diving head first into an integrated course and potential financial ruin.
The next couple of years he should continue to fly on his PPL and build some decent experience.
The market would look completely different in a couple of years.
I don't think anybody right now is waiting for another unemployed 19 year old "frozen ATPL".
Sorry, didn't want to be a buzz-kill but just offering an opinion.
The next couple of years he should continue to fly on his PPL and build some decent experience.
The market would look completely different in a couple of years.
I don't think anybody right now is waiting for another unemployed 19 year old "frozen ATPL".
Sorry, didn't want to be a buzz-kill but just offering an opinion.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Thread Starter
B2N2, you are so right but Plan A is for dad to give up work in one well paid job and take up a better paid one but without prospects. Son will then walk the straight and narrow.
Plan B. AFAIK there is no Plan B.
The lad is well set, all his limbs are on the right way up, he doesn't wear glasses, but I have no idea if he has even considered a CAA medical as vital to his ambitions.
I think one motive for Plan A was to avoid 'wasting' time and money on a university education.
Your Plan B is clearly the more sensible option to which I would add, get a medical.
Plan B. AFAIK there is no Plan B.
The lad is well set, all his limbs are on the right way up, he doesn't wear glasses, but I have no idea if he has even considered a CAA medical as vital to his ambitions.
I think one motive for Plan A was to avoid 'wasting' time and money on a university education.
Your Plan B is clearly the more sensible option to which I would add, get a medical.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 6th Sep 2012 at 07:57.
