36 And my dream has died.
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36 And my dream has died.
I came here when I was 32 and I couldn’t afford training then. Four years later things and nothings changed. I sat and watched the planes take off at Heathrow today and realised my dreams died.
Lack of finance and unimaginable costs have prevented me from achieving what I always wanted to be.
Lack of finance and unimaginable costs have prevented me from achieving what I always wanted to be.
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light weight!
4 years? Try 8 years just to get a CPL issued back when you needed 700h to get a CAA one! This included 4 years on and off unemployed and low wage jobs in the 1990s recession when BAE was laying off 5000 Aerospace engineers a month and my fellow Aero Eng students had just graduated.
You just happened to start dreaming at the beginning of a recession.
Even if you manage 12 h flying a year in any heavier than air machine the dream can still live on!
Give up if you want to but perseverance can pay off even if it takes 10 years longer than you wanted.
How about this chap -
In 1831, Abraham Lincoln failed in a business venture.
In 1832, Lincoln was defeated as a candidate for the state legislature.
In 1833, Lincoln failed once again in another business venture.
In 1835, Lincoln's fiancee died, shattering him.
In 1836, Lincoln suffered a nervous breakdown.
In 1843, Lincoln was defeated as a candidate for the U.S. Congress.
In 1848, Lincoln once again was defeated as a candidate for the U.S. Congress.
In 1855, Lincoln was defeated as a candidate for the U.S. Senate.
In 1856, Lincoln was defeated as a candidate for U.S. Vice President.
In 1859, Lincoln once again was defeated as a candidate for the U.S. Senate.
In 1860, Abraham Lincoln was elected the 16th President of the United States of America.
You just happened to start dreaming at the beginning of a recession.
Even if you manage 12 h flying a year in any heavier than air machine the dream can still live on!
Give up if you want to but perseverance can pay off even if it takes 10 years longer than you wanted.
How about this chap -
In 1831, Abraham Lincoln failed in a business venture.
In 1832, Lincoln was defeated as a candidate for the state legislature.
In 1833, Lincoln failed once again in another business venture.
In 1835, Lincoln's fiancee died, shattering him.
In 1836, Lincoln suffered a nervous breakdown.
In 1843, Lincoln was defeated as a candidate for the U.S. Congress.
In 1848, Lincoln once again was defeated as a candidate for the U.S. Congress.
In 1855, Lincoln was defeated as a candidate for the U.S. Senate.
In 1856, Lincoln was defeated as a candidate for U.S. Vice President.
In 1859, Lincoln once again was defeated as a candidate for the U.S. Senate.
In 1860, Abraham Lincoln was elected the 16th President of the United States of America.
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Same here too. After seven years since i got my ppl, four years since my CPL I've kinda realised its not going to happen. I am happy as cabin crew as I get to fly everyday and it's better than a 9-5 by a long way. I spent too long in mind numbing jobs paying my way through pilot training and just thought I could be doing that forever.
There's just nothing out there unless you have £30k for a TR. I always think 'imagine turning left' when I get on a plane but it's cheese and ham melts and scratch cards for the foreseeable. But I can't see the point of spending thousands a year keeping current. Having said that I'm happy doing what I do. Now only if I could get a job and put my FI rating to use (determined not to give up on that too).
I honestly wish I was in your shoes and hadn't bothered. I'm paying £370 on pilot training debt. If I didn't have that to pay I'd be quite comfortable on my modest wage. But I struggle to make ends meet most months.
There's just nothing out there unless you have £30k for a TR. I always think 'imagine turning left' when I get on a plane but it's cheese and ham melts and scratch cards for the foreseeable. But I can't see the point of spending thousands a year keeping current. Having said that I'm happy doing what I do. Now only if I could get a job and put my FI rating to use (determined not to give up on that too).
I honestly wish I was in your shoes and hadn't bothered. I'm paying £370 on pilot training debt. If I didn't have that to pay I'd be quite comfortable on my modest wage. But I struggle to make ends meet most months.
Last edited by fa2fi; 8th Mar 2012 at 19:35.
First flying lesson c. 1985. First commercial flying job Nov 2004 which I reckon is about 19 long, frustrating years.
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Blessing in disguise. Don't be too sad. I have wasted 80K and six years. Not a sniff of a job since qualifying in 2008. I wish I had never started. You are right it's a dream. Ask how many pilots encourage their children to follow in their footsteps. Very few. Just do PPL flying. More fun than sat in the cruise for 7 hours I'm told.....
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If you think you can do a thing or if you think you can’t do a thing – you’re right.
Go for PPL and have fun learning every stage of it
Enjoy GA . Live your aviation life .
All the best and hope to hear you getting ppl soon
Obstacles can't stop you. Problems can't stop you. Most of all, other people can't stop you. Only you can stop you .
Go for PPL and have fun learning every stage of it
Enjoy GA . Live your aviation life .
All the best and hope to hear you getting ppl soon
Obstacles can't stop you. Problems can't stop you. Most of all, other people can't stop you. Only you can stop you .
Midiman
Check out the GAPAN PPL Scholarship.
Flying Scholarships - GAPAN
http://www.gapan.org/file/580/ppl-2012.pdf
Flying Scholarships - GAPAN
http://www.gapan.org/file/580/ppl-2012.pdf
I'm very sorry for you midiman, but you are not alone.
Perhaps you're doing a few wannabees a favour by giving them a dose of reality. It is very easy to sign up to a CPL course and get carried away by the brochures and believe the FTOs when they paint a picture of your possible future career. But for a third of graduates it takes years and for at least another third it never happens.
Always have a good backup plan (a career!) to fall back on.
Perhaps you're doing a few wannabees a favour by giving them a dose of reality. It is very easy to sign up to a CPL course and get carried away by the brochures and believe the FTOs when they paint a picture of your possible future career. But for a third of graduates it takes years and for at least another third it never happens.
Always have a good backup plan (a career!) to fall back on.
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In 1860, Abraham Lincoln was elected the 16th President of the United States of America.
Get a PPL, do the IR and play with those privileges. Good luck.
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I know a guy who didn't even get started until his late 40s. Happily flying an Air New Zealand ATR these days.
To be honest in these days where everything is buy-a-type-rating and pay-to-fly, age has never been less relevant, because the employer isn't investing a penny in you anyway they don't care.
Sure you won't get a BA cadetship, probably won't get a longhaul command at a legacy airline, and the later you leave it the less time you have to recoup your investment. Those are facts that won't change. But if you're realistic about where you're likely to end up (regional or lo-co at best), if you've got the money and just want to blow your kids' inheritance on your play thing, then it's entirely possible a lot older than your current age.
I don't approve of pay-to-fly or anything else and I'll probably STILL slag you off if you go down that road - but I guess old codgers have just as much of a right to trash the industry as the young kids do
To be honest in these days where everything is buy-a-type-rating and pay-to-fly, age has never been less relevant, because the employer isn't investing a penny in you anyway they don't care.
Sure you won't get a BA cadetship, probably won't get a longhaul command at a legacy airline, and the later you leave it the less time you have to recoup your investment. Those are facts that won't change. But if you're realistic about where you're likely to end up (regional or lo-co at best), if you've got the money and just want to blow your kids' inheritance on your play thing, then it's entirely possible a lot older than your current age.
I don't approve of pay-to-fly or anything else and I'll probably STILL slag you off if you go down that road - but I guess old codgers have just as much of a right to trash the industry as the young kids do
Twice in my career I've been told my career was over.
Age 19 (yes 19!) when I was chopped from University Air Squadron training, I was told very clearly that I had no aptitude to be a pilot.
So I did my PPL, and a degree in aeronautics, and got a job in flight testing engineering. The PPL took 2 years because I could only afford a lesson every 2-3 weeks, and that at the expense of just about everything else.
Age 26, I failed a very expensive course paid for by my employer in Flight Test Engineering, and was told that (in the opinion) of my tutors I was totally unsuited to any role in flight testing.
So I went and did a PhD in flight testing, in my own time and with mostly my own money. Progressed onto some really quite senior jobs, and ended up running a series of test programmes and international campaigns.
Aged 41 I now have 4 figure hours, nearly 400 hours in flight testing, have crewed the first flights of 10 new-build aeroplanes, worked in aviation in more countries than I bother counting any more, and whilst only a small part of my life is piloting, do have a commercial licence and an instructor rating, and overall work full time in aviation, making a salary that wouldn't embarrass a lot of full time airline pilots and flying most weeks.
Despite twice, very authoritatively, being told that I was completely unsuited to a professional aviation career.
So you've given up after only 4 years. Fair enough, it leaves the field more open to the truly dedicated. The ones who push every waking minute for the aviation career they really want. I'm not claiming I'm special in having pushed that hard, loads of people have - quite a few have posted on this thread already.
Aviation careers, any of the worthwhile ones anyhow, are tough to get into, and tough to stay in. If you have that dedication, you can get there.
If that consists of watching other people flying out of LHR and wishing, then you don't have that dedication. After 4 years, if you wanted it enough, any salaried income would have got you a PPL and a start on the ATPL groundschool (or whatever other route you are taking, I'm the first to say that an airline cockpit isn't the only job, and personally I was never interested in that route.)
G
Age 19 (yes 19!) when I was chopped from University Air Squadron training, I was told very clearly that I had no aptitude to be a pilot.
So I did my PPL, and a degree in aeronautics, and got a job in flight testing engineering. The PPL took 2 years because I could only afford a lesson every 2-3 weeks, and that at the expense of just about everything else.
Age 26, I failed a very expensive course paid for by my employer in Flight Test Engineering, and was told that (in the opinion) of my tutors I was totally unsuited to any role in flight testing.
So I went and did a PhD in flight testing, in my own time and with mostly my own money. Progressed onto some really quite senior jobs, and ended up running a series of test programmes and international campaigns.
Aged 41 I now have 4 figure hours, nearly 400 hours in flight testing, have crewed the first flights of 10 new-build aeroplanes, worked in aviation in more countries than I bother counting any more, and whilst only a small part of my life is piloting, do have a commercial licence and an instructor rating, and overall work full time in aviation, making a salary that wouldn't embarrass a lot of full time airline pilots and flying most weeks.
Despite twice, very authoritatively, being told that I was completely unsuited to a professional aviation career.
So you've given up after only 4 years. Fair enough, it leaves the field more open to the truly dedicated. The ones who push every waking minute for the aviation career they really want. I'm not claiming I'm special in having pushed that hard, loads of people have - quite a few have posted on this thread already.
Aviation careers, any of the worthwhile ones anyhow, are tough to get into, and tough to stay in. If you have that dedication, you can get there.
If that consists of watching other people flying out of LHR and wishing, then you don't have that dedication. After 4 years, if you wanted it enough, any salaried income would have got you a PPL and a start on the ATPL groundschool (or whatever other route you are taking, I'm the first to say that an airline cockpit isn't the only job, and personally I was never interested in that route.)
G
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Your too young to chuck in towel, I started at age 35, never really wanted to do airline flying as I have a unrelated business, which I wanted to keep going. Took me several attempts at most of the exams, flying courses were hard for me, but I kept going, now at the age of 47 I fly most weeks Im an instructor examiner and have over 1000 hours. One of my students is just finished his commercial training at the age of 48.
So stop feeling sorry for yourself and get going.
I would add that it is a gamble to get a well paid job. I was an instructor in Cabair for several years freelance, I followed at lot of the students progression, as they come back to me to get their SEPs signed. Out of 25 guys I knew only a few are now still flying, a lot of them have let licenses lapse and moved on, never to go back to flying, but if you accept its not an easy path or there are no guarantees, get stuck in, it is possible to get there, but keep your eyes wide open.
So stop feeling sorry for yourself and get going.
I would add that it is a gamble to get a well paid job. I was an instructor in Cabair for several years freelance, I followed at lot of the students progression, as they come back to me to get their SEPs signed. Out of 25 guys I knew only a few are now still flying, a lot of them have let licenses lapse and moved on, never to go back to flying, but if you accept its not an easy path or there are no guarantees, get stuck in, it is possible to get there, but keep your eyes wide open.
He'd be dead by now anyhow. He won.
G
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Hi Midiman,
Don't you work in IT and UK? Salaries are very good! Go contractor route. I also work in IT. I think IT work can be very frustrating sometimes so it makes you sad. I am from Lithuania and I just got my CPL and salary 1000pounds is considered very good here! If I don't get flying job I am thinking about moving to UK. Look every second airline hires IT developers!!!
Get the job get to know pilots and they will guide you with your flying career.
You can go flying gliders or ultralights. You can build a plane yourself! Possibilities are endless for you!
Don't you work in IT and UK? Salaries are very good! Go contractor route. I also work in IT. I think IT work can be very frustrating sometimes so it makes you sad. I am from Lithuania and I just got my CPL and salary 1000pounds is considered very good here! If I don't get flying job I am thinking about moving to UK. Look every second airline hires IT developers!!!
Get the job get to know pilots and they will guide you with your flying career.You can go flying gliders or ultralights. You can build a plane yourself! Possibilities are endless for you!
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First of all, sorry for my english!!
I got my PPL in 1991 when I was 19, but I couldn't afford a CPL until 2007, when the crisis was already here.
Now I'm 40 and nobody is hiring me, with 400TT, a fATPL, IR(ME) rating and FI.
But I don't give up. I have started my own business with a friend older than me who is in the same situation. We are doing tiuristic flights without investing a dime. Use your imagination:
We have advertising in the internet for the touristic flights. The website gets 20% of the price. We have an agreement with an FTO which has the license to do the touristic flights, so it is all legal.
We provide the clients, fly the airplanes and get an small share of the price, and the FTO gets flying hours for their airplanes and most of the money for the rental of the airplanes. We all win.
I'm only flying 3h/month, and I have to work as industrial engineer during the week because the earnings are not enought, but the business is going up and maybe in the future we wiil be able to buy our own airplane.
I got my PPL in 1991 when I was 19, but I couldn't afford a CPL until 2007, when the crisis was already here.
Now I'm 40 and nobody is hiring me, with 400TT, a fATPL, IR(ME) rating and FI.
But I don't give up. I have started my own business with a friend older than me who is in the same situation. We are doing tiuristic flights without investing a dime. Use your imagination:
We have advertising in the internet for the touristic flights. The website gets 20% of the price. We have an agreement with an FTO which has the license to do the touristic flights, so it is all legal.
We provide the clients, fly the airplanes and get an small share of the price, and the FTO gets flying hours for their airplanes and most of the money for the rental of the airplanes. We all win.
I'm only flying 3h/month, and I have to work as industrial engineer during the week because the earnings are not enought, but the business is going up and maybe in the future we wiil be able to buy our own airplane.
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Adapt, improvise, overcome...
Hell, I know it is easier to talk the talk than walk the walk, but I would encourage you to keep the dream alive Midiman - finding the right finance will always be difficult, but I think a famous Chinese saying goes along the lines of 'The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step...'
Find the funds for your PPL and go from there...
Genghis offers some valuable comment here - I'm sure we have all found ourselves in a position in life where someone in authority has stated 'you will never make it' - be it a maths exam, a driving lesson or your parkour buddies... the thing is I know lots of people who have been told this, and have made it. I can count my self in that category, having been crushed several times at a well known military training establishment in Lincolnshire; to then go on and excel in my career and pip my peers to some of the most competed for posts in my Branch.
Find a way Midiman...talk to your family and friends...and take the small steps.
Most of all, believe in yourself.
Hell, I know it is easier to talk the talk than walk the walk, but I would encourage you to keep the dream alive Midiman - finding the right finance will always be difficult, but I think a famous Chinese saying goes along the lines of 'The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step...'
Find the funds for your PPL and go from there...
Genghis offers some valuable comment here - I'm sure we have all found ourselves in a position in life where someone in authority has stated 'you will never make it' - be it a maths exam, a driving lesson or your parkour buddies... the thing is I know lots of people who have been told this, and have made it. I can count my self in that category, having been crushed several times at a well known military training establishment in Lincolnshire; to then go on and excel in my career and pip my peers to some of the most competed for posts in my Branch.
Find a way Midiman...talk to your family and friends...and take the small steps.
Most of all, believe in yourself.