Instrument problems !!
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Liverpool
Instrument problems !!
Has anyone on PPRuNe used any additional books / software to help with instruments ATPL subjects ? The feeling I get from the forums is that this is the one of the hardest exams and I must agree with this. Therefore I was looking for some additional help. I'm currently up to frame 11 at BGS so will be on the brush up course on 22nd Oct.
Also I heard a rumour that the pass mark for the ATPL exams had been reduced from 75% to 65% surely this can't be true.
How much weight do future employers place on exam marks ? Are they disregarded as long as you have the precious piece of paper ?
Regards
Also I heard a rumour that the pass mark for the ATPL exams had been reduced from 75% to 65% surely this can't be true.
How much weight do future employers place on exam marks ? Are they disregarded as long as you have the precious piece of paper ?
Regards
Joined: Dec 2000
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Yup - Instruments is a tricky one....just missed out myself by a couple of %.
Where did you get that 65% rumour from then?? Do you mean for all papers or just last months intsruments paper???!!!!
Nice thought but somehow I doubt it.
There must be a good book on Instruments, but which one do the JAA use????
Where did you get that 65% rumour from then?? Do you mean for all papers or just last months intsruments paper???!!!!
Nice thought but somehow I doubt it.
There must be a good book on Instruments, but which one do the JAA use????
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Oxfordshire
The JAA'a own source document for the Flight Instruments and Powerplant Monitoring Systems is believed to be "Aircraft Instruments and Integrated Systems" by E H J Pallett, 6th Impression, published in 2000. The ISBN number is 0-582-0862-2 and it's published by Longman. They have a website www.awl-he.com
I don't know the price because it was bought by our purchasing department, but I imagine that it's around £20.
It really is excellent and I have never seen any question in the JAA exam that was not covered by it on those 2 subjects. You can't complain that you didn't know anything about tachos if you've read Pallett. The only problem with it is that it's intended as more than just a JAA student's document - it's an aircraft engineer's reference book, and so there is more in it than you need to pass the exam - or even to be a reasonably professional pilot.
I'm on holiday at present so, without it in front of me, I can't remember how well it covers Autoflight and Warning and Recording. I will post another message on Monday when I get back letting you know.
Paul Hickley
[ 05 September 2001: Message edited by: Paul Hickley, Gen Nav Spec, Oxford ]
I don't know the price because it was bought by our purchasing department, but I imagine that it's around £20.
It really is excellent and I have never seen any question in the JAA exam that was not covered by it on those 2 subjects. You can't complain that you didn't know anything about tachos if you've read Pallett. The only problem with it is that it's intended as more than just a JAA student's document - it's an aircraft engineer's reference book, and so there is more in it than you need to pass the exam - or even to be a reasonably professional pilot.
I'm on holiday at present so, without it in front of me, I can't remember how well it covers Autoflight and Warning and Recording. I will post another message on Monday when I get back letting you know.
Paul Hickley
[ 05 September 2001: Message edited by: Paul Hickley, Gen Nav Spec, Oxford ]
Joined: May 1999
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From: Bristol, England
The main reference book in English is 'Aircraft Instruments' by Pallet which is used by the CAA to reference questions about gyros, compasses and basic flight instruments. Autoflight is referenced partly to this book and partly to the B737-400 Technical Manual. FMS is B737-400, other systems such as altitude alert, TCAS etc can be either Boeing or Airbus but predominantly Boeing with some questions only answerable from the Maintenance Manuals. The questions about tachometers, ratiometers and fuel flow meters appear to originate from the Dutch ATPL syllabus of the 1990's and the best references I can find are ATPL notes from that period. Hope this helps, Pallet is heavy going!
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...688485-6432644
ouch 35 quid from amazon cheaper than a resit i suppose.
To be honest you would be better with getting your hands on the feedback.
MJ
ouch 35 quid from amazon cheaper than a resit i suppose.
To be honest you would be better with getting your hands on the feedback.
MJ
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From: Suffolk UK
I can: Jack 
Or is precession what all the England fans will suffer on the way back from the pub tonight?
Exits unsteadily, singing, 'Two-nil, two-nil, hic, two-nil....'
Or is precession what all the England fans will suffer on the way back from the pub tonight?
Exits unsteadily, singing, 'Two-nil, two-nil, hic, two-nil....'
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Oxfordshire
I've been in to work today (even when on leave!!!!) - but it was about something else, not this. However, whilst I was there, I did check whether the Pallett book covered Autoflight and Warning and Recording.
And the answer is - that it doesn't! But Pallett has written another book - "Automatic Flight Control" This is by Pallett and Coyle, published by Blackwell Scientific Publications, ISBN Number 0-632-03495-5. This, I can tell you, having heard it from the CAA FCL department themselves, is another one of the JAA ATPL Instruments source documents. Again, check the price yourselves, but from Mad Jock's last posting, it's unlikely to be cheap. It IS the JAA source document for Autoflight, but I'm afraid it doesn't cover Warning and Recording.
Honestly, guys, once you see the price of any any other profession's standard source documents - lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc - those 2 books for professional engineers together will cost about the best part of £50 and they're not optimised for the JAA (too much detail) and they don't cover W & R - you might just as well bite the bullet and buy the Oxford course notes. We don't sell them from Oxford - see, no direct commercial interest - but through a concession with Jeppesen and Pooley's - oh, all right, an indirect commercial interest, then - but at least I'm not lying to you about it. You can make your own mind up.
Our Instrumentation notes cost £44:50 - cheap when compared to 2 Pallett books - are optimised totally for JAA ATPL, receive the benefit of feedback, contain the whole Instrumentation syllabus (4 subjects) in one book, are bang up to date, with lots and lots of practice questions and worked examples based directly on JAA ATPL feedback from Oxford students.
You can get them from Pooley's Flight Equipment Limited, Elstree Aerodrome, HERTS, WD6 3AW, order line: 0208 207 3749, tel: 0208 953 4870 or fax: E-mail: [email protected] or from Jeppesen, Frankfurter Strasse 233, 63263 Neu-Isenburg, Germany, tel: +49 6102 508250, fax: +49 6102 508282 or email: [email protected]
Hope this is helpful.
Paul
[ 06 September 2001: Message edited by: Paul Hickley, Gen Nav Spec, Oxford ]
And the answer is - that it doesn't! But Pallett has written another book - "Automatic Flight Control" This is by Pallett and Coyle, published by Blackwell Scientific Publications, ISBN Number 0-632-03495-5. This, I can tell you, having heard it from the CAA FCL department themselves, is another one of the JAA ATPL Instruments source documents. Again, check the price yourselves, but from Mad Jock's last posting, it's unlikely to be cheap. It IS the JAA source document for Autoflight, but I'm afraid it doesn't cover Warning and Recording.
Honestly, guys, once you see the price of any any other profession's standard source documents - lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc - those 2 books for professional engineers together will cost about the best part of £50 and they're not optimised for the JAA (too much detail) and they don't cover W & R - you might just as well bite the bullet and buy the Oxford course notes. We don't sell them from Oxford - see, no direct commercial interest - but through a concession with Jeppesen and Pooley's - oh, all right, an indirect commercial interest, then - but at least I'm not lying to you about it. You can make your own mind up.
Our Instrumentation notes cost £44:50 - cheap when compared to 2 Pallett books - are optimised totally for JAA ATPL, receive the benefit of feedback, contain the whole Instrumentation syllabus (4 subjects) in one book, are bang up to date, with lots and lots of practice questions and worked examples based directly on JAA ATPL feedback from Oxford students.
You can get them from Pooley's Flight Equipment Limited, Elstree Aerodrome, HERTS, WD6 3AW, order line: 0208 207 3749, tel: 0208 953 4870 or fax: E-mail: [email protected] or from Jeppesen, Frankfurter Strasse 233, 63263 Neu-Isenburg, Germany, tel: +49 6102 508250, fax: +49 6102 508282 or email: [email protected]
Hope this is helpful.
Paul
[ 06 September 2001: Message edited by: Paul Hickley, Gen Nav Spec, Oxford ]
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From: Suffolk UK
I'd just like to point out that Paul did ask me if he could mention Oxford's notes, as they are available commercially and exactly meet the needs of the original poster. In the interests of all Wannabes struggling with Instruments and Autoflight, I agreed that they could be mentioned. A slight slap on the wrist, though, Paul - I said I'd do it!! 
Thread Starter
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From: Liverpool
I'd like to Thank everyone who responded to this post for their efforts. I know from the forum that it's not just myself that is struggling with instruments and this advice is invaluable.
FMS EICAS ECAM FCC FMCADI HSI ADC APFDS CDU LNAV VNAV !! The thought of wadeing through a very heavy engineers text book isn't very appealing (the BGS ATPL notes are heavy enough) I will seriously consider Oxfords instruments notes to support my learning
Thanks again
FMS EICAS ECAM FCC FMCADI HSI ADC APFDS CDU LNAV VNAV !! The thought of wadeing through a very heavy engineers text book isn't very appealing (the BGS ATPL notes are heavy enough) I will seriously consider Oxfords instruments notes to support my learning
Thanks again
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 43
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: bournemouth
Some gen guys,
The gyro questions are set by France. In France a two-gimballed gyro system has TWO degrees of freedom, and a one-gimballed gyro has ONE degree of freedom. This, to me at least, does not conform to the general laws of gyrodynamics. Note that in addition, an air-driven artificial horizon is referred to as a "classic/classical artificial horizon." It is therefore probable that recent commercial textbooks such as written by EH Pallett are incorrect from the examination point of view. Be aware! How many more trade secrets do you wish me to give away?....or do you wish.....
David
The gyro questions are set by France. In France a two-gimballed gyro system has TWO degrees of freedom, and a one-gimballed gyro has ONE degree of freedom. This, to me at least, does not conform to the general laws of gyrodynamics. Note that in addition, an air-driven artificial horizon is referred to as a "classic/classical artificial horizon." It is therefore probable that recent commercial textbooks such as written by EH Pallett are incorrect from the examination point of view. Be aware! How many more trade secrets do you wish me to give away?....or do you wish.....
David
