ODP's and SID's
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ODP's and SID's
Hey all,
I write this after a couple of weeks of studying and sourcing answers from colleagues only to be met with differing answers.
I fly in Australia so my TERPS knowledge is limited... Bare with me.
1) According to the IPH and other documents, if you have been cleared a SID, you are not required to execute an ODP.. Is this a correct statement or have I misinterpreted?
2) If the SID you have been cleared has no "takeoff minimums" published on the plate and no trouble T, does this mean standard takeoff minimums and standard climb 200ft per nm?
3) If the SID you have been cleared has no takeoff minimums published on the plate but does have a trouble T, and when reading the trouble T section it does not state any minimums but says instead "departure procedure all rwys use XXX departure" (which I interpret to be a graphical ODP) does this mean you have to fly the XXX departure to completion then fly the SID, or you are to use the takeoff minimums from XXX departure and just fly the SID or does it mean cause XXX departure is an ODP you can ignore it and just use standard minimums (which is strange given the trouble t)?
Finally...
4) If a non standard minimum is given... Let's say for e.g. 1700-2 1/2 or standard with 270' per nm until 1000... Does this mean you are able to use standard climb gradient of 200' per nm if the prevailing conditions are equal or better than published as long as you use the see and avoid principle? Does this ensure adequate obstacle clearance post 1700 if the MSA is higher (assume still tracking SID)? Or does 1700 essentially become a pseudo DER screen height? And finally, assuming the first question in this part is the correct one, if you have to avoid, are you still conducting the SID (personally I think it puts you in a grey area)
Any advice or expertise would be greatly appreciated... This issue has created alot of discussion at work...
I write this after a couple of weeks of studying and sourcing answers from colleagues only to be met with differing answers.
I fly in Australia so my TERPS knowledge is limited... Bare with me.
1) According to the IPH and other documents, if you have been cleared a SID, you are not required to execute an ODP.. Is this a correct statement or have I misinterpreted?
2) If the SID you have been cleared has no "takeoff minimums" published on the plate and no trouble T, does this mean standard takeoff minimums and standard climb 200ft per nm?
3) If the SID you have been cleared has no takeoff minimums published on the plate but does have a trouble T, and when reading the trouble T section it does not state any minimums but says instead "departure procedure all rwys use XXX departure" (which I interpret to be a graphical ODP) does this mean you have to fly the XXX departure to completion then fly the SID, or you are to use the takeoff minimums from XXX departure and just fly the SID or does it mean cause XXX departure is an ODP you can ignore it and just use standard minimums (which is strange given the trouble t)?
Finally...
4) If a non standard minimum is given... Let's say for e.g. 1700-2 1/2 or standard with 270' per nm until 1000... Does this mean you are able to use standard climb gradient of 200' per nm if the prevailing conditions are equal or better than published as long as you use the see and avoid principle? Does this ensure adequate obstacle clearance post 1700 if the MSA is higher (assume still tracking SID)? Or does 1700 essentially become a pseudo DER screen height? And finally, assuming the first question in this part is the correct one, if you have to avoid, are you still conducting the SID (personally I think it puts you in a grey area)
Any advice or expertise would be greatly appreciated... This issue has created alot of discussion at work...
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1) According to the IPH and other documents, if you have been cleared a SID, you are not required to execute an ODP.. Is this a correct statement or have I misinterpreted?
YES - IF YOU FLY THE SID AS PUBLISHED IT GUARANTEES OBSTRUCTION CLEARANCE
2) If the SID you have been cleared has no "takeoff minimums" published on the plate and no trouble T, does this mean standard takeoff minimums and standard climb 200ft per nm?
YES
3) If the SID you have been cleared has no takeoff minimums published on the plate but does have a trouble T, and when reading the trouble T section it does not state any minimums but says instead "departure procedure all rwys use XXX departure" (which I interpret to be a graphical ODP) does this mean you have to fly the XXX departure to completion then fly the SID, or you are to use the takeoff minimums from XXX departure and just fly the SID or does it mean cause XXX departure is an ODP you can ignore it and just use standard minimums (which is strange given the trouble t)?
IF PUBLISHED AN ODP SHOULD BE CONSIDERED THE DEFAULT DP UNLESS A SID HAS BEEN ASSIGNED AND ACCEPTED, IN WHICH CASE YOU FLY THE SID
Finally...
4) If a non standard minimum is given... Let's say for e.g. 1700-2 1/2 or standard with 270' per nm until 1000... Does this mean you are able to use standard climb gradient of 200' per nm if the prevailing conditions are equal or better than published as long as you use the see and avoid principle? Does this ensure adequate obstacle clearance post 1700 if the MSA is higher (assume still tracking SID)? Or does 1700 essentially become a pseudo DER screen height? And finally, assuming the first question in this part is the correct one, if you have to avoid, are you still conducting the SID (personally I think it puts you in a grey area)
THE NON STANDARD MINS ALLOW YOU TO SEE AND AVOID, BUT OBSTACLES MAY PENETRATE THE OCS. ONCE YOU GET ABOVE THE STATED ALTITUDE 200 FPNM SHOULD GIVE YOU OBSTACLE CLEARANCE TO ROUTE STRUCTURE.
Any advice or expertise would be greatly appreciated... This issue has created alot of discussion at work...
YES - IF YOU FLY THE SID AS PUBLISHED IT GUARANTEES OBSTRUCTION CLEARANCE
2) If the SID you have been cleared has no "takeoff minimums" published on the plate and no trouble T, does this mean standard takeoff minimums and standard climb 200ft per nm?
YES
3) If the SID you have been cleared has no takeoff minimums published on the plate but does have a trouble T, and when reading the trouble T section it does not state any minimums but says instead "departure procedure all rwys use XXX departure" (which I interpret to be a graphical ODP) does this mean you have to fly the XXX departure to completion then fly the SID, or you are to use the takeoff minimums from XXX departure and just fly the SID or does it mean cause XXX departure is an ODP you can ignore it and just use standard minimums (which is strange given the trouble t)?
IF PUBLISHED AN ODP SHOULD BE CONSIDERED THE DEFAULT DP UNLESS A SID HAS BEEN ASSIGNED AND ACCEPTED, IN WHICH CASE YOU FLY THE SID
Finally...
4) If a non standard minimum is given... Let's say for e.g. 1700-2 1/2 or standard with 270' per nm until 1000... Does this mean you are able to use standard climb gradient of 200' per nm if the prevailing conditions are equal or better than published as long as you use the see and avoid principle? Does this ensure adequate obstacle clearance post 1700 if the MSA is higher (assume still tracking SID)? Or does 1700 essentially become a pseudo DER screen height? And finally, assuming the first question in this part is the correct one, if you have to avoid, are you still conducting the SID (personally I think it puts you in a grey area)
THE NON STANDARD MINS ALLOW YOU TO SEE AND AVOID, BUT OBSTACLES MAY PENETRATE THE OCS. ONCE YOU GET ABOVE THE STATED ALTITUDE 200 FPNM SHOULD GIVE YOU OBSTACLE CLEARANCE TO ROUTE STRUCTURE.
Any advice or expertise would be greatly appreciated... This issue has created alot of discussion at work...
