ATPL, 14 groundschool exams, do you have to sit them again??
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ATPL, 14 groundschool exams, do you have to sit them again??
Hey there guys; I have a quick question about the 14 subjects sat in order to gain an ATPL. Do you only have to sit the exams once as long as you keep your licence current, i.e. if you are an airline pilot you only have to take the exams once in your lifetime?
Thank you in advance
Thank you in advance
Sure this is a question in the ATPL Air Law exam, but from Lasors:
The holder of a valid JAR-FCL CPL(A)/IR with JAR-FCL ATPL Theory credit (ie someone who passed the JAR ATPL theory prior to completing the JAR CPL/IR course) will be credited the JAR-FCL ATPL(A) Theoretical knowledge examination for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of the IR(A) entered in the CPL(A).
The holder of a valid JAR-FCL CPL(A)/IR with JAR-FCL ATPL Theory credit (ie someone who passed the JAR ATPL theory prior to completing the JAR CPL/IR course) will be credited the JAR-FCL ATPL(A) Theoretical knowledge examination for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of the IR(A) entered in the CPL(A).
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That means, yes
In short, that means yes! Once you've passed all 14 exams and got your cpl/ir, theres no need to ever return to them. Especially if your flying with an airline and stay current.
Dora sorry you're wrong.
If you get a CPL/IR having passed the ATPL exams and do NOT get an airline job, and cannot afford to renew your IR, then 7 years from the date of expiry of the most recent IR - then your ATPL theory exams expire. Of course you'd hold the CPL and expired IR, but to obtain an ATPL in the future, among other things, you'd need to redo all 14 ATPL exams.
Saying that once you pass the exams you NEVER need to do them again, is totally wrong!
If you get a CPL/IR having passed the ATPL exams and do NOT get an airline job, and cannot afford to renew your IR, then 7 years from the date of expiry of the most recent IR - then your ATPL theory exams expire. Of course you'd hold the CPL and expired IR, but to obtain an ATPL in the future, among other things, you'd need to redo all 14 ATPL exams.
Saying that once you pass the exams you NEVER need to do them again, is totally wrong!
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that' s my case, I have a frozen ATP, 320 rating and multi engine license IR for single pilot.
my 320 and muti engine are valid for 6 years after last check.
still need to be current every year if you want fly.
If I let my 320 expired, I can still renew the multi engine which cost less , and I will be good for 6 years.If I don't renew anything after 6 years , I have another year to renew my expired multi engine but the course could be longer and more expensive .
If I still do nothing after 7 years, everything is expired, and I need to resit the 14 exams, pass the multi engine to get IR and pass the 320 course if i want a job on the 320. Total cost: 50'000-70'000 euro
and I can tell you, spend more money or give up! because I am not sure I will find a job in Europe and I am not motivated anymore.
I have to know where I can renew the 320, and at what cost?
my 320 and muti engine are valid for 6 years after last check.
still need to be current every year if you want fly.
If I let my 320 expired, I can still renew the multi engine which cost less , and I will be good for 6 years.If I don't renew anything after 6 years , I have another year to renew my expired multi engine but the course could be longer and more expensive .
If I still do nothing after 7 years, everything is expired, and I need to resit the 14 exams, pass the multi engine to get IR and pass the 320 course if i want a job on the 320. Total cost: 50'000-70'000 euro
and I can tell you, spend more money or give up! because I am not sure I will find a job in Europe and I am not motivated anymore.
I have to know where I can renew the 320, and at what cost?
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I gather that if you fly in the military for say 10 years, you lose the exam passes.
What happens if you say get a job with a US airline, so you don't exercise your JAA ATPL privileges for 10 years?
I believe the CAA supports that option but I am not so sure this is common across JAA, especially thinking of Germany.
What happens if you say get a job with a US airline, so you don't exercise your JAA ATPL privileges for 10 years?
I believe the CAA supports that option but I am not so sure this is common across JAA, especially thinking of Germany.
HI IO540- long time no see.
Any ICAO IR is suitable for keeping these exams 'banked.' Same with Military flying, although can't remember off hand what documents the CAA would need to see from the military pilot as evidence they've had their military IR privileges valid within the last 7 years.
Any ICAO IR is suitable for keeping these exams 'banked.' Same with Military flying, although can't remember off hand what documents the CAA would need to see from the military pilot as evidence they've had their military IR privileges valid within the last 7 years.
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I asked because I met a number of military pilots during my ground school time, who were re-doing all the theory....
Would you have a ref for that? I am sure you are right for the UK CAA.
Any ICAO IR is suitable for keeping these exams 'banked.'
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Its in lasors
And also JAR FCL. Might change though in the not so distant future.
A SEP SPA IR will do though to keep it valid.
The problem that the mil boys have is that the normal rules for getting the IR training and flight test still apply from the last exam. So if they get sent away for 6 months come back to leave then training then get sent away again etc etc it all to quickly means the 2 years is up. Once they have it there MIL cat will keep them valid. Just like any ICAO IR.
And also JAR FCL. Might change though in the not so distant future.
A SEP SPA IR will do though to keep it valid.
The problem that the mil boys have is that the normal rules for getting the IR training and flight test still apply from the last exam. So if they get sent away for 6 months come back to leave then training then get sent away again etc etc it all to quickly means the 2 years is up. Once they have it there MIL cat will keep them valid. Just like any ICAO IR.
Mad Jock is right.
It is in the IR section E of Lasors for renewal requirements;
"Where less than 7 years have elapsed since the IR(A) expired but IR privileges have been exercised in another category of aircraft (i.e. UK/JAR IR(H)) or under the privileges of an ICAO licence (Aeroplanes and Helicopters) or under a military IR qualification (fixed-wing or rotary), the renewal requirements for the IR(A) will be based on the expiry of that other IR. If more than 7 years have elapsed since the IR(A) expired, no credit will be given for any other IR rating or qualification, and the terms set out below for more than 7 years since expiry shall apply."
It is in the IR section E of Lasors for renewal requirements;
"Where less than 7 years have elapsed since the IR(A) expired but IR privileges have been exercised in another category of aircraft (i.e. UK/JAR IR(H)) or under the privileges of an ICAO licence (Aeroplanes and Helicopters) or under a military IR qualification (fixed-wing or rotary), the renewal requirements for the IR(A) will be based on the expiry of that other IR. If more than 7 years have elapsed since the IR(A) expired, no credit will be given for any other IR rating or qualification, and the terms set out below for more than 7 years since expiry shall apply."
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LASORS is the stuff delegated under the UK ANO to the CAA. What happens in say Germany?
What exactly does the ICAO IR preserve? AIUI, it preserves all the theory exams, so a BA ATP going to work in the USA for 15 years can come back, do a brush-up etc, and work for BA again. But what if you fly on an ICAO IR (privately, though I do actually have an FAA CPL/IR) for 10 years, during which you have not renewed your JAA IR? Can you renew the JAA IR with just a normal IRE, or is it a fresh new IR flight test (currently with a CAA staff examiner though this is changing)?
What exactly does the ICAO IR preserve? AIUI, it preserves all the theory exams, so a BA ATP going to work in the USA for 15 years can come back, do a brush-up etc, and work for BA again. But what if you fly on an ICAO IR (privately, though I do actually have an FAA CPL/IR) for 10 years, during which you have not renewed your JAA IR? Can you renew the JAA IR with just a normal IRE, or is it a fresh new IR flight test (currently with a CAA staff examiner though this is changing)?
CPL AND IR?
A slight variation - If I am awarded the CPL but not the IR within 36 months of the last exam pass what happens then?
I currently have to get the IR completed by March 2013, and can't access LASORS at the moment but almost done getting the CPL.
I currently have to get the IR completed by March 2013, and can't access LASORS at the moment but almost done getting the CPL.
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Well you would fall foul of your license being out of date, to renew you would need a medical and a class/type valid.
After that its just a normal IRE that does it. It also depends on if the IACO is valid at that point in time if you have to do refresher training or not. There might be some rubbish after 5 years that you need to send your license to the CAA again to get them to put it back on.
The theory stays valid but you also have to jump through the hoops on which ever class/type you have. Which very well might mean you have to jump through hoops to get that back then do your test with an IRE unless its a type then a TRE can do both at the same time.
So its a two stage and two sets of rules which you have to comply with.
I don't have a clue what the new rules are going to be.
The changes with EASA are doing away with Staff examiners who I believe are becoming more of a standards inspection team.
After that its just a normal IRE that does it. It also depends on if the IACO is valid at that point in time if you have to do refresher training or not. There might be some rubbish after 5 years that you need to send your license to the CAA again to get them to put it back on.
The theory stays valid but you also have to jump through the hoops on which ever class/type you have. Which very well might mean you have to jump through hoops to get that back then do your test with an IRE unless its a type then a TRE can do both at the same time.
So its a two stage and two sets of rules which you have to comply with.
I don't have a clue what the new rules are going to be.
The changes with EASA are doing away with Staff examiners who I believe are becoming more of a standards inspection team.
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If I am awarded the CPL but not the IR within 36 months of the last exam pass what happens then?
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mad_jock thats correct IO
But it gets a bit funny after that for Commercial pilots.
You can't just go and do the IR only exams it needs to be the full lot
But it gets a bit funny after that for Commercial pilots.
You can't just go and do the IR only exams it needs to be the full lot
MJ is correct however, if you just do the 7 IR exams and add an IR to your CPL you end up with a CPL/IR but not a Frozen ATPL which is where it gets interesting.....
Last edited by Unusual Attitude; 12th Aug 2011 at 13:59.