IR: sim time vs flight time - comments plse!
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IR: sim time vs flight time - comments plse!
Which is more productive, real instrument flight time in a plane, or time spent in a simulator when training for the IR?
Comments please from any helpful IR holders, please!
Comments please from any helpful IR holders, please!
Join Date: Mar 1999
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I take it you mean an approved, Frasca type simulator?
Flying is the real deal, you've got the screens up and the pressure is on (though when I did my IR, we wouldn't have needed the screens, the wx was that rough).
I found frasca time handy for polishing up on procedures and good practice, we were given free solo sim time for the school when it wasn't being used - again very handy and good for your IR scan.
I also used FS2000 and now FS2002 just to jot up on procedures - don't take the mick, I don't use it to "fly" just to practice holds, joins, IR routes etc - can be helpful but without proper flying, useless.
Since getting the IR I've had a go in a few full motion sims - 737-300, A340 and Trident, learned a lot from that I must say, if you get the chance to have a play with them, do so, it's invaluable experience.
However, since the IRT I've kept current on Seneca's or Aztecs, always filing IFR. It costs but nothing else is going to keep your scan together.
Flying is the real deal, you've got the screens up and the pressure is on (though when I did my IR, we wouldn't have needed the screens, the wx was that rough).
I found frasca time handy for polishing up on procedures and good practice, we were given free solo sim time for the school when it wasn't being used - again very handy and good for your IR scan.
I also used FS2000 and now FS2002 just to jot up on procedures - don't take the mick, I don't use it to "fly" just to practice holds, joins, IR routes etc - can be helpful but without proper flying, useless.
Since getting the IR I've had a go in a few full motion sims - 737-300, A340 and Trident, learned a lot from that I must say, if you get the chance to have a play with them, do so, it's invaluable experience.
However, since the IRT I've kept current on Seneca's or Aztecs, always filing IFR. It costs but nothing else is going to keep your scan together.
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pjdj777, yes, Frasca simulators. Couldn't for the life of me remember the word earlier.
A lot of IR courses seem to have 40 hours Frasca time scheduled, and only the minimum actual flight time.
What I was really asking, is does anyone think picking an IR course with more real flight time would be better?
Example: EFT in Florida do the whole 55 hours of the IR in the air.
A lot of IR courses seem to have 40 hours Frasca time scheduled, and only the minimum actual flight time.
What I was really asking, is does anyone think picking an IR course with more real flight time would be better?
Example: EFT in Florida do the whole 55 hours of the IR in the air.
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I think aircraft time and sim (Frasca) time are complementary. The sim is particularly valuable early on during the IR training when you are getting the scan together and making a muck-up of some of the approaches. A good sim instructor can pause the sim, explain where you are going wrong, and restart the sim either from the freeze point, or from an earlier part of the approach.. .This provides a faster rate of learning than flying real approaches where traffic often limits you to a couple of approaches per flight.
However, there comes a point where you need to move onto the aircraft to progress. It can then be useful to go back to the sim for a session if there is something you are having particular trouble with.
The most important thing in IR training (after the funds) is the instructor and this applies to the sim instructor too.
Just a tip.... When you are part way through the IR training, it seems impossible to fit in all the tasks, talk on the radio, calculate airways join times, and fly the aircraft to the required accuracy while still finding time to fit in all the checks. Everyone with an IR I have talked to has felt part-way through the training that it was beyond them and wondered what they were doing on the course, spending money faster than a playboy. Keep your nerve, work hard, and it eventually comes.
I was lifted from the depths of depression by a poem that appeared in the wannabee section of pprune. If I can find it I'll post it here. It worked for me.
Finally, good luck !
However, there comes a point where you need to move onto the aircraft to progress. It can then be useful to go back to the sim for a session if there is something you are having particular trouble with.
The most important thing in IR training (after the funds) is the instructor and this applies to the sim instructor too.
Just a tip.... When you are part way through the IR training, it seems impossible to fit in all the tasks, talk on the radio, calculate airways join times, and fly the aircraft to the required accuracy while still finding time to fit in all the checks. Everyone with an IR I have talked to has felt part-way through the training that it was beyond them and wondered what they were doing on the course, spending money faster than a playboy. Keep your nerve, work hard, and it eventually comes.
I was lifted from the depths of depression by a poem that appeared in the wannabee section of pprune. If I can find it I'll post it here. It worked for me.
Finally, good luck !
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Use the sim time to learn the hold entries and other procedures, making drift calculations while airborne etc so that you don't have to think about them. You will be busy enough in the real aircraft without having to remember 60/tas x windspeed = max drift or something.
Depending on the package, sim time is a fraction of the price of the aircraft, so it is never time wasted. I did a non-approved IR and spent some 10 hours bashing the sim before I got in the aircraft, and the result was I only needed three trips in the aircraft including the 170A before getting a first time pass. This is not meant as a boast, but simply to illustrate that I felt able to handle any type of procedure or airborne calculation before I actually got into the aircraft because I was able to use the sim, pause it if necessary and so on until I knew where I was.
Make the most of the sim time, it's not costing you £30 a click!!
Depending on the package, sim time is a fraction of the price of the aircraft, so it is never time wasted. I did a non-approved IR and spent some 10 hours bashing the sim before I got in the aircraft, and the result was I only needed three trips in the aircraft including the 170A before getting a first time pass. This is not meant as a boast, but simply to illustrate that I felt able to handle any type of procedure or airborne calculation before I actually got into the aircraft because I was able to use the sim, pause it if necessary and so on until I knew where I was.
Make the most of the sim time, it's not costing you £30 a click!!
