HELP! I'm thick and want to fly...
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HELP! I'm thick and want to fly...
Is it worth still looking for a career in flying when I only have GCSEs. Its something I've always wanted to to do but circumstances meant I never finished A-levels let alone degree. Is it worth me going back to studying after 4 years of work (in the industry) or should I so the self finance way? Also at the end of self finance can you have an ATPL but be refused because of academic qualifications or lack of? To be honest I'm stuck and I wanna join you guys up there!
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Ok, let's be realistic here, it's better to be brutal than kind when giving advice on this matter, simply because of the scale of money involed. . . Firstly, let me just say this - If you have the right attitude and are a patient person, you can achieve what ever you want.. . However, in reply to your question, you must ask yourself three questions :
1. Since you only have GCSE's, how confident are you that you would be able to deal with the material presented on an ATPL course. Everybody likes to think they're clever chappies, get your hands on some of the material you'd be expected to learn. My first degree was physics, so I'd have a good understanding of subjects like aerodynamics and thermal topics, on the other hand, these can be quit difficult if new to them.. .Don't be put off by topics with big names or topics that sound difficult, if your prepared to study hard, then there's no reason why you cant do it.
2. Say you get your ATPL! (yeh!!!) So've you've studied hard, and spent lots. Consider the compition between you and all the others with ATPL's, except more than likely, they will have more than just GCSE's. . . Getting that job you dream of will involve at lot more than just presenting your licence. They'll compare you with others, and yep, qualifications will come into it at some point! Who knows though, you could be the best interviewee there! Who's to say what qualities/qualifications they look for...
3. Finally, don't forget the old saying - 'right place at the right time...'. So you've got the licence, the qualifications may/may not be irrelevant, after all that, you could just end up in the same position as many pilots - always looking, but nout' happening!!
Hope these pointers help! Just read loads of pilot mags/checkout pprune/get to know some wannabes etc...
It's a big decission, but one well worth it i'm sure if you make it!
All the best . .G-HIGH
1. Since you only have GCSE's, how confident are you that you would be able to deal with the material presented on an ATPL course. Everybody likes to think they're clever chappies, get your hands on some of the material you'd be expected to learn. My first degree was physics, so I'd have a good understanding of subjects like aerodynamics and thermal topics, on the other hand, these can be quit difficult if new to them.. .Don't be put off by topics with big names or topics that sound difficult, if your prepared to study hard, then there's no reason why you cant do it.
2. Say you get your ATPL! (yeh!!!) So've you've studied hard, and spent lots. Consider the compition between you and all the others with ATPL's, except more than likely, they will have more than just GCSE's. . . Getting that job you dream of will involve at lot more than just presenting your licence. They'll compare you with others, and yep, qualifications will come into it at some point! Who knows though, you could be the best interviewee there! Who's to say what qualities/qualifications they look for...
3. Finally, don't forget the old saying - 'right place at the right time...'. So you've got the licence, the qualifications may/may not be irrelevant, after all that, you could just end up in the same position as many pilots - always looking, but nout' happening!!
Hope these pointers help! Just read loads of pilot mags/checkout pprune/get to know some wannabes etc...
It's a big decission, but one well worth it i'm sure if you make it!
All the best . .G-HIGH
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G-HIGH
Suppose you have a degree,maybe even two and I have only GCSE's but 1000hrs, 800 of which are through instructing.
Who will be preffered then?
Qualifications are very important if you want to be sponsored but not if you are self sponsored.Dont get me wrong, to have a degree would be great, but the amount it costs to goto Uni' nowadays is not worth it. The money would be better spent on an ATPL.
After all an ATPL is a qualification isnt it?
No Comment,
When i was looking around my intended FTO only 2 people on the course had degrees.=2/30. .Try to get to know somebody like GH says.When i was learning to fly i made it perfectly clear that i wanted to Instruct.Word soon got round to the CFI about this.Consequently on my skills test the CFI in question said. ."I think you would make a good instructor"
He also didnt have a degree!
I wasnt even talking to him about it he just came out with these words!.So you can guess where im going when i get my shiny new FI(r).
Not doing the A-Levels might be a good thing as long as you did the right thing since.. .I for example didnt bother with my A-Levels.I left school and did an apprenticeship in IT and got industry based qualifications.. .Now just 2 months after my 22 b'day i am about to begin Modular training full time.I also have a self funded PPL with 100 hrs!
. .Make your own decisions, but as everyone says, the wrong decision may well be regretable whennyou are older. I already regret not doing my ATPL when i was 18!
[ 23 January 2002: Message edited by: Rowley ]</p>
Suppose you have a degree,maybe even two and I have only GCSE's but 1000hrs, 800 of which are through instructing.
Who will be preffered then?
Qualifications are very important if you want to be sponsored but not if you are self sponsored.Dont get me wrong, to have a degree would be great, but the amount it costs to goto Uni' nowadays is not worth it. The money would be better spent on an ATPL.
After all an ATPL is a qualification isnt it?
No Comment,
When i was looking around my intended FTO only 2 people on the course had degrees.=2/30. .Try to get to know somebody like GH says.When i was learning to fly i made it perfectly clear that i wanted to Instruct.Word soon got round to the CFI about this.Consequently on my skills test the CFI in question said. ."I think you would make a good instructor"
He also didnt have a degree!
I wasnt even talking to him about it he just came out with these words!.So you can guess where im going when i get my shiny new FI(r).
Not doing the A-Levels might be a good thing as long as you did the right thing since.. .I for example didnt bother with my A-Levels.I left school and did an apprenticeship in IT and got industry based qualifications.. .Now just 2 months after my 22 b'day i am about to begin Modular training full time.I also have a self funded PPL with 100 hrs!
. .Make your own decisions, but as everyone says, the wrong decision may well be regretable whennyou are older. I already regret not doing my ATPL when i was 18!
[ 23 January 2002: Message edited by: Rowley ]</p>
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I wasn't quite sure which way G-HIGH was going to go when I started to read his post and, having read it, I'm still not certain!. .No Comment, there is no bar on non-degree qualified pilots in commercial aviation in UK. Many, if not most, of the pilots in this country over 40 years old do not have a degree - although most will have A-levels.. .The studies for ATPL need mental stamina rather than brilliance, and there's no reason why you shouldn't pass given enough work. It's up to you to decide whether in fact you are 'thick' or that you're as intelligent as the next guy but didn't prove that academically. You will need to brush up on your maths though, but ATPL maths is no more than GCSE level.. .The reason we encourage Wannabes to get degrees is to give them something to fall back on should flying not work out. I assume your 4 years in industry has given you a skill you could go back to? If so, then what reason have you for not trying aviation, if it's really what you want to do? You will not be looked down upon at interview, believe me.. .I think High was roughly saying the same thing!
[ 23 January 2002: Message edited by: Scroggs ]</p>
[ 23 January 2002: Message edited by: Scroggs ]</p>
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Cheers guys... thanks for the advice. Taken it on board and will re-assess my priorities. Oh, by the way Scroggs, I used the term 'thick' for impact purposes only! Then again...could be true!. .cya
If you have the qualifications, you are potentially employable. But, the question I think you are asking yourself is can you get the qualifications.
I'd suggest, if you have the money, go get a PPL and the odd rating (IMC/night probably), see how you handle it, and importantly whether you enjoy it.
Then think about buying a module of theory for the ATPL, pick something nasty like air-law. See if you can cope with that.
Then if, without hopefully having spent too much money, you enjoy the flying, didn't struggle too much with the PPL, and could cope with a chunk of ATPL study (don't expect to enjoy it or find it easy, that's too much for anybody to expect), the answer is probably yes. At that point you can carry on, or if the answer was no, change track without bankrupting yourself or going down an avenue you won't ultimately enjoy.
G
I'd suggest, if you have the money, go get a PPL and the odd rating (IMC/night probably), see how you handle it, and importantly whether you enjoy it.
Then think about buying a module of theory for the ATPL, pick something nasty like air-law. See if you can cope with that.
Then if, without hopefully having spent too much money, you enjoy the flying, didn't struggle too much with the PPL, and could cope with a chunk of ATPL study (don't expect to enjoy it or find it easy, that's too much for anybody to expect), the answer is probably yes. At that point you can carry on, or if the answer was no, change track without bankrupting yourself or going down an avenue you won't ultimately enjoy.
G
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You most certainly do not require even GCSEs to pass the JAR ATPL exams. In fact, as some people have learned to their cost, Knowing the true facts about some of these subjects can be a handicap. What you need to know is the JAR facts.
In the case of the technical subjects, a basic grounding in such things as newtons laws, trigonometry, and how to use a calculator is enough to start with. Your instructors will help you build on this. (Yes they will probably complain, but that's just normal). If that's not convinced you, then consider this. In one of the 4 week CAA courses at PPSC last year the electrics instructor was dealing with transformer theory. One of the students couldn't quite grasp how to work out the output for a given input and number of windings. The instructor said "just think of the ratios of primary windings to secondary windings". He was a bit exasperated when the student said "what's a ratio". The student then went on to pass everything first time.
You can pass the exams if you are prepared to work hard enough.
In the case of the technical subjects, a basic grounding in such things as newtons laws, trigonometry, and how to use a calculator is enough to start with. Your instructors will help you build on this. (Yes they will probably complain, but that's just normal). If that's not convinced you, then consider this. In one of the 4 week CAA courses at PPSC last year the electrics instructor was dealing with transformer theory. One of the students couldn't quite grasp how to work out the output for a given input and number of windings. The instructor said "just think of the ratios of primary windings to secondary windings". He was a bit exasperated when the student said "what's a ratio". The student then went on to pass everything first time.
You can pass the exams if you are prepared to work hard enough.
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Although a degree is a nice to have, it won't make you a better pilot in my opinion. I certainly would not waste your money on trying to get one now. What you need is determination and good hand /eye co-ordination. A degree will produce none of these. Determination may produce a degree.
The degree will help in sponsorship and job selection. It is something that is creeping in now I'm afraid. If the Germans had their way, all prospective candidates for a JAA licence would have to have a one!!
Unless you are looking at a test pilot or NASA as a career, then time and money better spent on getting the licences. You will be that much younger and to me, that would make you a better selection prospect if I were interviewing;
I know guys who have left school at 15, i.e. with no qualifications. Two I know have finished up on Heavy A/C and yes, with reputable airlines.
Just because one is not in possession of a degree, it is not a sign of low intelligence. You are born with ability and intelligence. In the genes? Possibly.
The degree will help in sponsorship and job selection. It is something that is creeping in now I'm afraid. If the Germans had their way, all prospective candidates for a JAA licence would have to have a one!!
Unless you are looking at a test pilot or NASA as a career, then time and money better spent on getting the licences. You will be that much younger and to me, that would make you a better selection prospect if I were interviewing;
I know guys who have left school at 15, i.e. with no qualifications. Two I know have finished up on Heavy A/C and yes, with reputable airlines.
Just because one is not in possession of a degree, it is not a sign of low intelligence. You are born with ability and intelligence. In the genes? Possibly.
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Unless you can get a work permit for and intend to work in the US forget about that avenue.
It most certainly can be done in the UK and plenty of people have done it (me included). There have been a few other threads recently on just this issue. Take a peep.
Best of luck from a fellow thicky who seems to be doing fine.
PP
Unless you can get a work permit for and intend to work in the US forget about that avenue.
It most certainly can be done in the UK and plenty of people have done it (me included). There have been a few other threads recently on just this issue. Take a peep.
Best of luck from a fellow thicky who seems to be doing fine.
PP
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It has been said here before, but IMHO, if that is what you want to do get stuck in. . .A pointer is the PPL books, if you can understand the syllabus then you will be able to get on with the ATPLs.
