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Doctor to pilot?

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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 17:51
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Doctor to pilot?

Hello to everyone,

This is my first post on this forum. I've been lurkking around for a while but thought I'd get on board and introduce myself.

I am currently in my final year of medical school (24yrs old), and assuming I pass my finals, I have a 2 year guaranteed job as a junior doctor in hospital

My passion has always been planes ever since a child. Lack of funds/parental support for flying meant I couldn't train straight after school. I thought I would enjoy a career in medicine but uni has shown me otherwise, and the way the NHS is these days really does not help matters.

I shall be living at home with my parents for the next couple of years. This way I'll be able to raise at least £30,000. Coupled with a minor loan, I am hoping on heading off to Florida to start my commercial pilot licence after 2years as a juniour doc. UK prices are simply unaffordable for me at the moment, and I know the weather here can delay training times too.

I have found a place that does a JAA Airline Programme for just under £25,000 in Ormond Beach, FL. Obviously I will look into places etc in more detail nearer the time, but clearly the USA is a more affordable option than the UK.

I have a few questions though as I am a total noob to the world of aviation and would greatly appreciate some sound advice:

1. Will having a degree in medicine and a bsc in anatomy be of any hinderance/advantage or just an insignificant factor when trying to land a job with an airline which is my ultimate goal?

2. What is the current regional (europe) and global demand for pilots? What percent are out of jobs - I appreciate such data may not be available perhaps.

3. Will a JAA licence from the USA need to be converted to a UK JAA?

4. After you've obtained your commercial licence what is the best way of notching up more hours if you don't get an airline job straight away (which I assume most people don't?!).

This has been my dream ever since I was child. In a way I thought I'd grow out of it if that makes sense, but the opposite is true, my passion has grown and I'm willing to sacrifice all my med school training to do something I really think I would enjoy as a career.

And if it doesn't work out I'll be very gutted but at least have something to fall back on I suppose.

Thanks for any advice
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 20:52
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Thumbs up

First welcome to PPRUNE. It might be worth using the search function, as you will find some useful information on the questions you are asking.

In brief, I can give you some basic information on what you want to know.

1. You will find quite a few pilots that have qualifications in fields that are non aviation related, and you having a degree in medicine will not put you at any disadvantage. As long as you hold a professional pilot licence when you finish your training, that is all that is required.

2. Getting your first professional pilot job is difficult and very competitive. A small percentage of people get jobs straight away, but for many it can take years. There are numerous variables. At the moment there are more qualified pilots than jobs. There are a fair few experienced guys out of work.

3. If you obtain a JAR licence in the US, there is no conversion. However, if you were to get a FAA licence you would have to convert it.

4. There are numerous ways of gaining experience. You could instruct, parachute drop, aerial photography, air taxi, etc, etc. Sadly, you will find all this type of work is not very well paid, so depending on your life style will depend on whether this will be for you.

When you take on this task of wanting to be a professional pilot, you must think it through thoroughly, plan it thoroughly, be shrewd with your money and have a back up plan. So many people get into this without having a clear picture of what is involved, and end up disappointed and disheartened. On a positive note, if you have the passion for aviation and drive to succeed it is a great way to earn a living and very enjoyable.

I wish you luck, all the best.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:04
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Being a physician, or even having a doctoral degree, doesn't stop you training as a pilot, amateur or professional. Being a graduate in a tough numerate discipline will give you advantages in study skills, and disadvantages in existing student debt.

However, I have to question whether you want it enough? If you've got to 24 without makign some spirited attempts at learning to fly - that suggests you've at-present just a theoretical interest in being a professional pilot.

Learning in the USA is *probably* cheaper, but by the time you've added in travel, accomodation, and the cost of learning to fly in the UK subsequently, it's not as cheap as you might think. Plus, if you really want to fly, you shouldn't be happy waiting two years.

A junior doctor's salary will pay for your PPL over the course of a year or so. You'll need this if going professional anyhow, and will answer whether tyou really want to be a pilot enough. It'll also help you understand whether what you really want is to abandon your medical career for a professional flying career, or to fly for fun whilst continuing your medical career - which you must have some pashion for or you'd not have made it this far through that very tough training.

As for how to build hours cheaply in the UK? Buy a share and fly it a lot.

G
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:19
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Hey mate,

I have worked at two different airlines where there have been pilots who are also qualified doctors. One of them was infact the airlines medical examiner as well. He had three days a month where he ran crew medical exams in a little rented office at the airport. He was always in high demand and you had to book about 6 weeks ahead. Not only did it make use of his medical training but it also added a nice little supplement to his income. He used to say that doing aviation medicals for existing crew was easy money, the exam generally only took 20 minutes, the majority of guys and girls that come to you are in good health and the pay is great.

So go for it, finish your medical training, get qualified and then pursue the flying. At some point you can sit the Aviation Medical Examiners paper and you will be able to mix both qualifications.

Have fund.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:27
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Thanks for the info Catc3. I know of the competitive side to the industry and that is worrying but I guess it comes with the honour and privilege of learning to fly.

Genghis, perhaps it's hard to quite understand somebodies passions and true desires from a wall post. I've stuck at medicine for 6 years because I've enjoyed the uni life and didn't wanna disappoint family dropping out etc having invested the money. But the more I've done it the more I've disliked it. We are now final years, and many other students are excited they face life as a doctor very soon...I really don't.

My passion for flying has been ever since I was a child. I love driving cars and riding motorbikes, I'm a petrol head and think flying would simply be the best thing ever, and if I could earn money from doing it then even better.

The prospect of taking to the skies or going into a hospital all the time, well it's not much of a choice. And for the first time in my life I'm going to be in a position where I can afford to make my dream become a reality. As a teenager I conceded to the fact it wasn't gonna happen for financial reasons (and the military didn't interest me) so ended up doing medicine because I though the idea of being an orthapaedic surgeon would be fun, but realistically the odds are slim and flying would be more enjoyable anyway.

Unfortunately on a junior doctors pay, 1year saving up won''t be enough to help me get a JAA in the states, and the first 2years of medicine here are kind of together before you choose your specialty so it's the most convenient time to stop. I'd start tomorrow if I could.
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Old 2nd Apr 2011, 22:47
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I know that it's entirely possible to lose your love for a subject - I'm very lucky that I'm maintained the same passion: for technical aviation, since I was about 19, but I have a great many friends who have switched out of the subjects we studied alongside each other.

I'm a (relatively) crusty old bu66er now, but let me offer my own example. I decided at 19, halfway through the first year of my BEng, that my passion was for aviation.

I scraped together enough money for flying lessons whilst I was a student, went solo a few months after I graduated, got my PPL (and my first job in a technical aviation role) about 18 months after graduating.

I didn't have holidays, drove a clapped out old car, rarely ate out - and saved all my money for the flying lesson I could afford once a fortnight. But I got there.

And, my salary as a 22 year old graduate trainee in the Ministry of Defence was, allowing for inflation, almost certainly a lot less than you'll be making as a junior physician. Yes, okay, you'll have student debts, but nonetheless a great many people have managed to scrape enough together to learn, and then fly - I happen to be one of them. If we all could, you can. Fly gliders or microlights if it's cheaper and scratches the itch, but learn about flying, and learn about yourself in that environment.

Later I upgraded to a CPL (and just to mention it, a PhD in aeronautical engineering), whilst holding down a full time job, for much of that time, less well paid than I'd have made had I gone into medicine instead of aeronautical engineering.


Now having been rude and moralised at you; your profile says you're in Milton Keynes. If you want to see what being a pilot is like, drop me a PM - I own 1/20th of a perfectly serviceable aeroplane sat at Cranfield, pretty much representative of what you'd do the bulk of your private and professional licence training in - if you don't mind chipping in a few quid towards the fuel, you're very welcome to a bit of air experience sat next to me.

G
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Old 3rd Apr 2011, 11:33
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Genghis

if you don't mind chipping in a few quid towards the fuel,
You need to be careful here. The issue of cost-sharing for group-owned aircraft is very specifically covered by the ANO 2009 Article 269, and is limited to cost-sharing within the joint owners.

See The Air Navigation Order 2009

This came up not long ago in the group where I fly, and caused some angst. Better that than a clash with the regulators.
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Old 3rd Apr 2011, 12:01
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genghis, you are our hero, what an honor it must be sitting next to you....
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Old 3rd Apr 2011, 14:10
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kenparry - I'm sure that if the powers that be cared that much they'd also have had a go at prosecuting the several hundred people who have posted on the "spare seats available" thread on Private Flying over the seven years it's been running. But it's a fair point.

Blohm- I'm willing to bet, if questioned, that well over half the people who post on PPrune have similar stories to tell about how they saved to learn to fly. It just happens that I know my own story better than anybody else's. That and trying to get across to thulfi that he can fly, if he wants it enough, because I firmly believe that is the case. I'm no more a hero than anybody else who has worked hard for something they wanted to do.

G
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Old 3rd Apr 2011, 15:30
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Genghis,

It may well be that the thread on "spare seats" shows legal opportunities. For reasons not known to me, the CAA have made a quite specific rule about group-owned aircraft. Whether they have ever prosecuted, I know not. I raised the issue because it seems to be not widely known. After all, who would read the ANO when one can time in much more interesting ways...........

Good luck
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Old 3rd Apr 2011, 16:33
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To be perfetly honest I think it's a bad decision to become a pilot if you're a qualified doctor.

The posters above who mention Doctors they know at their airlines - those doctors most likely entered the game many years ago.

Ten years ago it was a viable alternative career for someone who would otherwise be a Doctor, lawyer or architect. These days it's more suited to someone who would otherwise be a builder, bus driver or car mechanic.

You'll lose both a good career and a fun hobby.

Keep to the doctoring - make aviation your hobby - it's way more enjoyable that way.
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Old 3rd Apr 2011, 16:59
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If you're looking at training for flying in the US, you might investigate what you'd have to do to become a doctor at the same time.

One of the kids that was always round my house when my lot were growing up, came here after qualifying as a doctor in the UK. Got qualified in two states and is now a surgeon in CA. Believe me, there are not many pilots in the world that are in his financial bracket.

Flying is like being an actor . . . when things are going well, it can be great fun - and sometimes even lucrative - but there's a good chance you'll be the equivalent of a walk-on actor in a depressing town, or even with the other pilots in the dole queue.

Stay with medicine and fly for fun.
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Old 3rd Apr 2011, 20:03
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v6g

Aviation as a hobby is undoubtedly the hassle free and easier option as oppose to spending all that money on commercial flight training. The only issue is I really don't wanna be a doctor until I retire.

If in 2 years I take time out of medicine, save up then go to florida for a year and my Jaa I will be in a good position to come back and continue work training to be a general practitioner.

In the mean time I would be 29ish, training for 3 years to become a GP whilsts earning not bad money, to then be able to further my hours and experience on a plane and just wait for the market to pick up or a lucky break I guess.

If I do my JAA at 29, become a GP whilst accumulating hours until 32, I shouldn't be to unrealistic thinking I couldn't become a pilot by say 38 or even sooner perhaps. That's still a good two decades of flying airline and not being a GP.

I don't like any specialties in medicine enough to justify me spending 8-10 years on.

Loose rivets

I've looked into medicine in the USA. It does pay well and they have a better life than UK docs. That said the conversion is a bit of pain, you never know about visas/green cards and I don't like medicine enough to justify it to myself.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 00:09
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Are you and I the same person thulfi?

I am just like you in medical school (3rd year) and I have a deep passion for flying.
I started with soaring planes when I was 18 and was fully determined to go down the CPL-route, but I graduated from secondary school in june 2008 and by then the aviation industry was on its way down. So go to the university I was accepted into was the only realistic thing to do back then.

Without a doubt have I have had my drops in study motivation every now and then, and when it happens there is only one thing on my mind, why the hell did I not go to flight school?

But I am determined to finish my degree and I intend to specialize in ENT and take courses to become a fully certified class 1 aviation medical examiner.
By doing that I am guaranteed to have a well paid job in the two fields that interest me the most, aviation and medicin.

For flying, I still plan to take the f-ATPL, but I think I will stay with just flying for fun. And perhaps one day be able to buy my own aerobatics plane.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 15:29
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I'm a bit in the same situation, though it's a Msc in aeronautical engineering i'm getting.
I'm also about to start my PPL training. I guess I'll stick to flying as a hobby. You earn a decent wage as a doctor, i'm quite sure more than a pilot. Why not spend the money you'd spend on the ATPL on buying a private plane?

I think flying for fun remains fun. As flying for work becomes work and not flying anymore. I don't know. But in the end it still is a job. I'd rather work as an engineer and look forward to the weekend to go flying, instead of looking forward to the end of each flight to be home
Greetings & good luck!

Last edited by Poeli; 4th Apr 2011 at 15:41.
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 16:16
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Just a thought to several posters here.

I've been an engineering student, and I've been an aeronautical engineer - on a good day, I still am one (on a better day, I'm a pilot).

I really did not enjoy studying as an undergraduate, but I have (almost) always enjoyed working as an engineer.

I'm sure it's possible to do this in medicine as well - it's just possible that you find you enjoy medical practice much much more than you have done studying it.

G
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 16:48
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I recently had a medical with an AME who, in her words, was a 'part time doctor' and a 'full time jumbo jet pilot'. She funded modular training by saving up working as a doctor and then taking time off to complete her modular training in quite a short timescale I believe. She now supplements her pilot wage by doing JAA medical examinations. I think she also said she worked partly as a GP when she could. So it's definately possible! And imagine the wonga she's on!
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Old 4th Apr 2011, 17:17
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according to me, what is essential now is to understand if flying is something that really interests you..

go to a flight shool, in uk and ask to fly a cessna with an instructor close to you, than start a ppl , than if you really enjoy and have enough skill start thinking about your future as a professional pilot..
read as well some magazine concerning airlines , aviation etc ..

this shoud be a way to avoid any mistake considering a job without having tried it in the real life..

i know there are some no profit organization in Africa which need both pilot and doctor , as far as pilots is concerned most of the time Cpl/ir s.e.p and 400/500 hour is enough to get the job..you can try there as first job..
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Old 5th Apr 2011, 13:06
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Stick with Plan A

As a person guaranteed a career in a profession that pays well I would continue down that path through FY1 and FY2 and get qualified so that you have a get-out-of-jail-free card.

The income you earn as a doctor or surgeon wil fund a modular programme through this in parallel to the day job

Added to this there are limited opportunities out there at the moment so I would stick with plan A... and then be in a position to cross over if (and I say if) an opportunity presents....
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