Clarification about time building in USA
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Joined: Apr 2008
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From: in the heart of everyone...
Clarification about time building in USA
Hi everyone!
First of all, I know there is thousand of posts about it, but I've been taking a look at hundred of posts but still there is something that I don't have clear enough.
If I go to USA with a partner and both of us get shared time, one of us is going to be as Safety Pilot right? That time, JAA doesn't like at all and it won't count towards your licensing time needs.
My question is, when both pilots have to enter this time in their logbook, what is the way to do it? One pilot puts the time in the PIC square and the other pilot, PIC time plus Safety pilot in the remarks section?
But what if I go to USA by myself, and I fly 100 hours truly, just alone in the airplane and I log the whole time as PIC. Would it count as real PIC time for JAA? Or definitely, JAA has set that anytime done in USA has to be reduced 50%?
When I say JAA, I mean DGCA in Spain, CAA in UK, etc.
Thanks so much in advance! Good flights!
First of all, I know there is thousand of posts about it, but I've been taking a look at hundred of posts but still there is something that I don't have clear enough.
If I go to USA with a partner and both of us get shared time, one of us is going to be as Safety Pilot right? That time, JAA doesn't like at all and it won't count towards your licensing time needs.
My question is, when both pilots have to enter this time in their logbook, what is the way to do it? One pilot puts the time in the PIC square and the other pilot, PIC time plus Safety pilot in the remarks section?
But what if I go to USA by myself, and I fly 100 hours truly, just alone in the airplane and I log the whole time as PIC. Would it count as real PIC time for JAA? Or definitely, JAA has set that anytime done in USA has to be reduced 50%?
When I say JAA, I mean DGCA in Spain, CAA in UK, etc.
Thanks so much in advance! Good flights!
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 91
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From: Fort Pierce, FL/USA
if you fly solo you fly solo, so that is 100% PIC.
The FAA regulations allow you to train in instrument conditions while wearing a hood, that way you can fly in VFR weather and log IFR. But in order to do so, you would need someone to sit next to you who is in charge of VFR separation etc... that person is PIC and can log PIC the whole time you are under the hood and so can you... So there is not difference there.
The difference between the pilot and safety pilot is that
1. the pilot logs PIC for the whole flight
2. safety pilot cannot log PIC when you taxi, take off, land or are not under the hood.
3. safety pilot cannot log cross country time.
/Johnny
The FAA regulations allow you to train in instrument conditions while wearing a hood, that way you can fly in VFR weather and log IFR. But in order to do so, you would need someone to sit next to you who is in charge of VFR separation etc... that person is PIC and can log PIC the whole time you are under the hood and so can you... So there is not difference there.
The difference between the pilot and safety pilot is that
1. the pilot logs PIC for the whole flight
2. safety pilot cannot log PIC when you taxi, take off, land or are not under the hood.
3. safety pilot cannot log cross country time.
/Johnny
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,170
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From: Abroad
With that said, this is a favourite amongst Spanish pilots who nearly always seem to go in pairs to the States, pay for a block of hours, and then each one of them logs the full time as PIC on the basis of being, presumably, sat on the plane.
I imagine the Spanish DGAC must turn a blind eye to this since it's so terribly obvious that even they should notice.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
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From: GREAT Britain
In JAR land, the "safety pilot" hours aren't loggable. At all. In any phase of flight.
Under JAR the only hours that anyone can log for that flight are the pilot (commander) of the flight. Those hours are logged as PIC. The safety pilot is a passenger as far as the JAA are concerned, although the FAA take a different view. JB's response doesn't apply to Europe.
If you're returning to Europe and need to declare you total hours you musn't declare these safety pilot hours.
Any solo time is logged the same way as it is in Europe - PIC with all hours counted 100%. I have never heard of any authority "scaling" hours flown in the US by 50% unless they have seen people trying to pass off somebody else's hours as their own and have lost patience with US time builders?
Under JAR the only hours that anyone can log for that flight are the pilot (commander) of the flight. Those hours are logged as PIC. The safety pilot is a passenger as far as the JAA are concerned, although the FAA take a different view. JB's response doesn't apply to Europe.
If you're returning to Europe and need to declare you total hours you musn't declare these safety pilot hours.
Any solo time is logged the same way as it is in Europe - PIC with all hours counted 100%. I have never heard of any authority "scaling" hours flown in the US by 50% unless they have seen people trying to pass off somebody else's hours as their own and have lost patience with US time builders?
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,071
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From: EGYD
I have never heard of any authority "scaling" hours flown in the US by 50% unless they have seen people trying to pass off somebody else's hours as their own and have lost patience with US time builders?
As has been covered multiple times before on this forum it is debatable whether you can log any of the time JB describes under JAA - as you cannot set out on a flight knowing that someone else will be logging PIC as well and then log JAA flight time yourself. It only works if the other student/pilot logged no PIC.
This then of course can invalidate CPL training as they wouldn't have the mandatory minimum hours for the start of course.
